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Issue with Barco, OPPO and Netflix...
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4238
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: JVC NX9 + Paladin DCR & Sony G90 : Lumagen Radiance Pro


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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I assume your signal chain goes like this?

Oppo Video > Lumagen > Barco
Oppo Audio > Cambridge

If not try it that way. You can also try sending audio and video to the Lumagen:
Oppo Audi & Video > Lumagen > Video Barco
-----------------------------------> Audio Cambridge

Just for an experiment you can try hooking the Oppo up directly bypassing the Cambridge and Lumagen. This isn't really going to tell you much though as HDMI sometimes works through one source and not another.

There is actually another possibility that the HDMI cable you are using for audio is the problem. I have seen this numerious times especially with the Lumagen 20xx. If the audio cable isn't working well HDCP will get dropped and you will also have the same problems with your video.

craigr

_________________
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*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4238
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: JVC NX9 + Paladin DCR & Sony G90 : Lumagen Radiance Pro


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corleone88 wrote:
Thanks Craig,

1m or more for the length?

The ideal HDMI length is 2 meters exactly. However, in most cases 1-3 meters is OK. It's best to use 2 meter cables while testing. I have found the MHY cables even work in their 1 foot cables though so nothing is set in stone.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters for JVC auto-calibration where Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4238
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: JVC NX9 + Paladin DCR & Sony G90 : Lumagen Radiance Pro


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, why is your Lumagen set to output 50.09 Hz? This should not be.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters for JVC auto-calibration where Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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Corleone88




Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 429
Location: France


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
Also, why is your Lumagen set to output 50.09 Hz? This should not be.

craigr


Do you mean that it should be at 50Hz sharp? My OPPO outputs at 50Hz with Netflix.

Besides, I changed the cable between the Lumagen and the OPPO, and it works!!! No more issues. So it seems that the other cable was not able to support correctly more than 1080p24
Thanks all for your help and especially Craig Smile
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4238
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: JVC NX9 + Paladin DCR & Sony G90 : Lumagen Radiance Pro


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corleone88 wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
Also, why is your Lumagen set to output 50.09 Hz? This should not be.

craigr


Do you mean that it should be at 50Hz sharp? My OPPO outputs at 50Hz with Netflix.

Besides, I changed the cable between the Lumagen and the OPPO, and it works!!! No more issues. So it seems that the other cable was not able to support correctly more than 1080p24
Thanks all for your help and especially Craig Smile

Thumbs Up

You're Lumagen is reporting 50.09 Hz output on the status screen, it should be 50.00. At 50.09 Hz the Lumagen will periodically need to insert frames which will make the image judder (jump) sometimes or possibly often.

You probably setup custom timings in your Lumagen? If not, just reselect the default 50Hz output mode in the Lumagen. If you do want to setup custom timings, than download my clock calculator spreadsheet and calculate the correct timing for your Lumagen in Hz basted on you Htotal and Vtotal lines. Here is a link:

http://www.cir-engineering.com/bin/clock_calc.xls

You'll have much smoother motion after you fix this.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters for JVC auto-calibration where Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Corleone88




Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 429
Location: France


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:

You're Lumagen is reporting 50.09 Hz output on the status screen, it should be 50.00. At 50.09 Hz the Lumagen will periodically need to insert frames which will make the image judder (jump) sometimes or possibly often.

You probably setup custom timings in your Lumagen? If not, just reselect the default 50Hz output mode in the Lumagen. If you do want to setup custom timings, than download my clock calculator spreadsheet and calculate the correct timing for your Lumagen in Hz basted on you Htotal and Vtotal lines. Here is a link:

http://www.cir-engineering.com/bin/clock_calc.xls

You'll have much smoother motion after you fix this.

craigr


Yes I setup quickly the custom timings in order to get 50Hz, that is why it was not accurate. I will try your calculator.
With my 2041, I have a very nice picture at 72Hz. Will the 2143 give a much better result in picture quality?

Thanks again Craig.
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4238
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: JVC NX9 + Paladin DCR & Sony G90 : Lumagen Radiance Pro


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corleone88 wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:

You're Lumagen is reporting 50.09 Hz output on the status screen, it should be 50.00. At 50.09 Hz the Lumagen will periodically need to insert frames which will make the image judder (jump) sometimes or possibly often.

You probably setup custom timings in your Lumagen? If not, just reselect the default 50Hz output mode in the Lumagen. If you do want to setup custom timings, than download my clock calculator spreadsheet and calculate the correct timing for your Lumagen in Hz basted on you Htotal and Vtotal lines. Here is a link:

http://www.cir-engineering.com/bin/clock_calc.xls

You'll have much smoother motion after you fix this.

craigr


Yes I setup quickly the custom timings in order to get 50Hz, that is why it was not accurate. I will try your calculator.
With my 2041, I have a very nice picture at 72Hz. Will the 2143 give a much better result in picture quality?

Thanks again Craig.

I think the 214x is the king daddy video processor for CRT. It was the very best of the Lumagen processors for HD and works seamlessly with CRT and Moome's input boards. That said, if you have a 2020 that is running 72Hz OK than I doubt you'll notice much difference. The 2020 isn't a bad processor by any stretch, the 21xx is just better.

I recommend the 214x to all my CRT clients even over the PRO. The PRO works well and pretty close to perfectly with Moome's boards now, but earlier PRO versions had higher jitter and would occasionally lose sync with Moome boards. When this would happen, the only fix I could find was to shut everything down, unplug the HDMI cable from the projector, power everything back up, switch the input on the Moome board, then reinsert the HDMI cable into the other input. It happened rarely, but what a pain in the butt. I haven't seen this problem with the newest 18 GHz output boards though as the jitter has gotten very low to between 70-80 ps.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters for JVC auto-calibration where Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4238
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: JVC NX9 + Paladin DCR & Sony G90 : Lumagen Radiance Pro


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corleone88 wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:

You're Lumagen is reporting 50.09 Hz output on the status screen, it should be 50.00. At 50.09 Hz the Lumagen will periodically need to insert frames which will make the image judder (jump) sometimes or possibly often.

You probably setup custom timings in your Lumagen? If not, just reselect the default 50Hz output mode in the Lumagen. If you do want to setup custom timings, than download my clock calculator spreadsheet and calculate the correct timing for your Lumagen in Hz basted on you Htotal and Vtotal lines. Here is a link:

http://www.cir-engineering.com/bin/clock_calc.xls

You'll have much smoother motion after you fix this.

craigr


Yes I setup quickly the custom timings in order to get 50Hz, that is why it was not accurate. I will try your calculator.
With my 2041, I have a very nice picture at 72Hz. Will the 2143 give a much better result in picture quality?

Thanks again Craig.

Oh, the other thing you may want to try is the Lumagen's 1080p 75Hz. It will run judder free like 50Hz, but also have no visible flicker and the image will be richer looking. If your 2020 can do 72Hz than it will probably be able to do the 75Hz as well.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters for JVC auto-calibration where Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Corleone88




Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 429
Location: France


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I'll try
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corleone88 wrote:
Ok, I'll try


DO OR DO NOT.

There is no TRY

(had to)

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CRT.

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Corleone88




Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 429
Location: France


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SIR, YES SIR !
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Corleone88




Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 429
Location: France


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Oh, the other thing you may want to try is the Lumagen's 1080p 75Hz. It will run judder free like 50Hz, but also have no visible flicker and the image will be richer looking. If your 2020 can do 72Hz than it will probably be able to do the 75Hz as well.

craigr


75Hz does not display anything except a fuzzy unreadable Barco info in green in the top right corner for 2 seconds.
I put Htot=2400, Vtot=1100 and clock=197802198
In your calculator, I put 75Hz but I have 74.93 display in blue next to it
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4238
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: JVC NX9 + Paladin DCR & Sony G90 : Lumagen Radiance Pro


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corleone88 wrote:
Quote:

Oh, the other thing you may want to try is the Lumagen's 1080p 75Hz. It will run judder free like 50Hz, but also have no visible flicker and the image will be richer looking. If your 2020 can do 72Hz than it will probably be able to do the 75Hz as well.

craigr


75Hz does not display anything except a fuzzy unreadable Barco info in green in the top right corner for 2 seconds.
I put Htot=2400, Vtot=1100 and clock=197802198
In your calculator, I put 75Hz but I have 74.93 display in blue next to it

Yeah, with that much blanking you'll never be able to run it. 197.8 MHz is too much for a Moome card even if you modify it to run the HDMI chip at a higher voltage. You'll only be able to run the stock Lumagen 75Hz timings or a bit more.

Regarding my clock calculator, you'd need to modify cell C6 and remove the /1.001 for 75 Hz timings.

If you're happy with 50 Hz just stay there.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters for JVC auto-calibration where Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Corleone88




Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 429
Location: France


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:

Yeah, with that much blanking you'll never be able to run it. 197.8 MHz is too much for a Moome card even if you modify it to run the HDMI chip at a higher voltage. You'll only be able to run the stock Lumagen 75Hz timings or a bit more.

Regarding my clock calculator, you'd need to modify cell C6 and remove the /1.001 for 75 Hz timings.

If you're happy with 50 Hz just stay there.

craigr


What would be the best timings for 1080p75? I am no expert so if there is too much blanking, then how far can I go to reduce it?
Can I use CVT-RB or CVT-RBv2 in my case?
I tried CVT-RB for 72Hz (VT=1119, HT=2080) but the picture is truncated in the width (by a big chunk).
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4238
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: JVC NX9 + Paladin DCR & Sony G90 : Lumagen Radiance Pro


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know most Moome boards can go to around 190-192 MHz. If you can stay under that than you might win. However, I often raise the voltage of the HDMI chip when I run them that high. What input are you using for the Barco; Moome, HDFury...?

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters for JVC auto-calibration where Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Corleone88




Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 429
Location: France


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own a Eisemann mod card
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4238
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: JVC NX9 + Paladin DCR & Sony G90 : Lumagen Radiance Pro


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corleone88 wrote:
I own a Eisemann mod card

Right, I forgot about Greg's board. I don't remember what chip he used.

Can the HDMI board accept YCbCr or only RGB? Is it DVI or HDMI?

If it is DVI or only accepts RGB than it will not support any overclock and I suppose 1080p 75Hz will not work for you.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters for JVC auto-calibration where Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Corleone88




Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 429
Location: France


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
Corleone88 wrote:
I own a Eisemann mod card

Right, I forgot about Greg's board. I don't remember what chip he used.

Can the HDMI board accept YCbCr or only RGB? Is it DVI or HDMI?

If it is DVI or only accepts RGB than it will not support any overclock and I suppose 1080p 75Hz will not work for you.

craigr


It is an HDMI board and accept YCbCr and RGB. I use YCbCr422.
I just changed to NTSC output on my OPPO and Netflix is now at 1080p60. It looks much better than at 50Hz but I don't know if Netflix in Europe (PAL) sends the signal at 50Hz and OPPO converts it to 60Hz. Or if OPPO is set to 60Hz, Netflix sends at 60Hz.
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4238
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: JVC NX9 + Paladin DCR & Sony G90 : Lumagen Radiance Pro


PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corleone88 wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
Corleone88 wrote:
I own a Eisemann mod card

Right, I forgot about Greg's board. I don't remember what chip he used.

Can the HDMI board accept YCbCr or only RGB? Is it DVI or HDMI?

If it is DVI or only accepts RGB than it will not support any overclock and I suppose 1080p 75Hz will not work for you.

craigr


It is an HDMI board and accept YCbCr and RGB. I use YCbCr422.
I just changed to NTSC output on my OPPO and Netflix is now at 1080p60. It looks much better than at 50Hz but I don't know if Netflix in Europe (PAL) sends the signal at 50Hz and OPPO converts it to 60Hz. Or if OPPO is set to 60Hz, Netflix sends at 60Hz.

I suspect I know what chip Greg used in those boards and you might be able to get some overclock out of it. You do need to have a good HDMI cable from the Lumagen to the projector too though.

To test, just keep raising the clock in the Lumagen with a black field in the background (about 5 MHz at a time). When you start to see sparkles or lines in the black field you have gone too far, so back of by 5 MHz or so and then make sure the image is stable for at least an hour with real world video. That will give you your limit.

As long as you don't go nuts you won't hurt anything and stay below 192 MHz.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters for JVC auto-calibration where Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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