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JVCs 1/4 million dollar D-ila from 20 years ago

 
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Zebra




Joined: 02 Jul 2020
Posts: 78
Location: NJ USA


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:43 pm    Post subject: JVCs 1/4 million dollar D-ila from 20 years ago Reply with quote


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I saw this JVC projector on ebay recently. It's one of their (far less well known) uber expensive pro line that retail at over $200,000.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FJVC-DLA-QX1G-D-ILA-Super-Projector-7000-Lumens-Commercial-Home-Theater%2F154074354649%3Fhash%3Ditem23df8c13d9%3Ag%3AkOYAAOSw6a5fUwgN&campid=5336656890&toolid=20008

I'm irrationally curious to see how it compares to current pro projectors and why it was so crazy expensive. Anyone here ever seen one?

This ebay lot started out asking $50,000 a few months ago and has been gradually dropping as it slowly dawns on the seller that nobody cares what you paid for a projector in 1999. It currently has no takers at $2500. I'm not sure it would sell even if he dropped it to $1000...

As an fyi, JVCs current top model in it's "visualization series" the VS-4010 NLG has a similar $200,000+ price. They suggest "planetariums" as one of it's uses. I've always thought it strange that these companies feel it's more important to have a precision image for kids to watch simulations of the earth going around the sun than it is for theater and home theater...

I guess it's always 7-year-olds who complain about visible pixel structures and washed out blacks.... and don't get my 5-year-old started about rainbow effects on 1 chip DLPs...
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I almost bought one of those 5 years ago for $1000. The seller didn't feel like answering my questions and I believe these need 220volts so I passed on it.

I do own a bunch of the lesser projectors from back then. I use them at Halloween. Some were labeled 'SIM' when I got them. DILA M2000's and G150's c.2003-2005 as well as their first series from c.1996-1999 DILA G10,G15,G20's

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16916
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: JVCs 1/4 million dollar D-ila from 20 years ago Reply with quote

Zebra wrote:
This ebay lot started out asking $50,000 a few months ago and has been gradually dropping as it slowly dawns on the seller that nobody cares what you paid for a projector in 1999. It currently has no takers at $2500. I'm not sure it would sell even if he dropped it to $1000...

You know something going to be overpriced and the seller has no idea what it's worth when the seller (a) lists the original MSRP, and (b) it's a tech product.

This seller clearly has no idea what they're selling. Just look at their other listings: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fbestdealdirect%2Fm.html%3Fitem%3D154074354649%26hash%3Ditem23df8c13d9%253Ag%253AkOYAAOSw6a5fUwgN%26rt%3Dnc%26_trksid%3Dp2047675.l2562&campid=5336656890&toolid=20008

The other sign it's going to be overpriced is when they mention "excellent cosmetic condition" but there's zero mention of how many hours of runtime. (We see this a lot with CRT projectors too from sellers who had no idea what they are selling: "The case on the outside is in perfect shape!". But no mention at all of tube condition). Wink

Kal

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HaydnG90




Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1292



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1,000:1 contrast ratio LOL
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24006
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:27 am    Post subject: Re: JVCs 1/4 million dollar D-ila from 20 years ago Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Zebra wrote:
This ebay lot started out asking $50,000 a few months ago and has been gradually dropping as it slowly dawns on the seller that nobody cares what you paid for a projector in 1999. It currently has no takers at $2500. I'm not sure it would sell even if he dropped it to $1000...

You know something going to be overpriced and the seller has no idea what it's worth when the seller (a) lists the original MSRP, and (b) it's a tech product.

This seller clearly has no idea what they're selling. Just look at their other listings: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fbestdealdirect%2Fm.html%3Fitem%3D154074354649%26hash%3Ditem23df8c13d9%253Ag%253AkOYAAOSw6a5fUwgN%26rt%3Dnc%26_trksid%3Dp2047675.l2562&campid=5336656890&toolid=20008

The other sign it's going to be overpriced is when they mention "excellent cosmetic condition" but there's zero mention of how many hours of runtime. (We see this a lot with CRT projectors too from sellers who had no idea what they are selling: "The case on the outside is in perfect shape!". But no mention at all of tube condition). Wink

Kal


Hey man, don't make fun of my garden gnomes, or try and lowball me. I know what I has. Wink
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16916
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My garden gnomes are mint! Wink

Kal

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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26079
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow 2800 watts at 220 volts. Talk about a house heater!
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jask




Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 9655
Location: kamloops BC


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
My garden gnomes are mint! Wink

Kal



... a 400$ Corning ware dish and lid..? Confused
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16916
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jask wrote:
... a 400$ Corning ware dish and lid..? Confused

Guaranteed best casserole ever or your money back! Amaze your friends!

Kal

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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26079
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
jask wrote:
... a 400$ Corning ware dish and lid..? Confused

Guaranteed best casserole ever or your money back! Amaze your friends!

Kal


....but wait there's more! If you act in the next 30 minutes you'll also receive a free set of steak knives. Just pay separate processing. Knives sharp enough to cut a can and STILL slice this tomato. (not recommended for steak)

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Zebra




Joined: 02 Jul 2020
Posts: 78
Location: NJ USA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I've learnt from owning a bunch of different high end pro grade projectors is that you can't tell anything about the image quality from reading the specifications. Most of the features that seperate a $60,000 pro grade device from the $3000-$10,000 home theater ones are not listed.

Things like the lens quality (and size), the size of the chips, hand-picking the cream of the crop components, the time at the factory spent on precision convergence adjustments etc. These make an enormous difference to image quality. Way more than things like upgrading from 1080p to 2160p.

More recent JVC entry level projectors will state contrast ratios of 30,000:1 to 2,000,000:1 but you'll never achieve more than 300:1 in the best designed rooms with near perfect light control. I wouldn't automatically assume you'd see better contrast watching a movie on a recent home theater device. Maybe better blacks given their lower light output.

If that thing was good enough to not only compete with 9" CRT projectors but actually charge 4x the price, my bet would be that the image would still stand up today. I'm not sure enough to buy it though obviously... And... I doubt you see it and say "that's where my $1/4 million went"...
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HaydnG90




Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1292



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you thought finding spare parts was hard for a Barco 909 imagine the problems for this 18 year old monster. Hope they changed the Dallas chip......
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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 11423
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zebra wrote:
More recent JVC entry level projectors will state contrast ratios of 30,000:1 to 2,000,000:1 but you'll never achieve more than 300:1 in the best designed rooms with near perfect light control.

Seriously!? Sometime when I have nothing better to do I'll have to drag out my light meter and check the ANSI contrast. I certainly don't believe the 2M:1 claims, and 30k:1 is probably vaporware too. But if I remember right, I got around 250:1 on my old AC CRT. I know my JVC RS-45 looks a lot better than that...

EDIT: hm. The only record I can find was that I measured 50:1 early on when I was learning how to set up my CRT and use the meter. My on:off was pretty bad, but I didn't think it was THAT bad... now you're making me wonder about the 250:1.
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Zebra




Joined: 02 Jul 2020
Posts: 78
Location: NJ USA


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
Zebra wrote:
More recent JVC entry level projectors will state contrast ratios of 30,000:1 to 2,000,000:1 but you'll never achieve more than 300:1 in the best designed rooms with near perfect light control.

Seriously!? Sometime when I have nothing better to do I'll have to drag out my light meter and check the ANSI contrast. I certainly don't believe the 2M:1 claims, and 30k:1 is probably vaporware too. But if I remember right, I got around 250:1 on my old AC CRT. I know my JVC RS-45 looks a lot better than that...

EDIT: hm. The only record I can find was that I measured 50:1 early on when I was learning how to set up my CRT and use the meter. My on:off was pretty bad, but I didn't think it was THAT bad... now you're making me wonder about the 250:1.


I wouldn't put much (or any) faith in contrast ratios measured at home with cheap light meters.

What you can gleam from your results though is that you can't tell anything about contrast from those 50,000:1+ full on / full off specs. They're as useful as measuring how good an image looks when you're not there...

In the real world 300:1 while watching a movie would be an achievement.

The projectors with the best contrast usually have fairly modest full on / full off ratios. They almost always the higher end 3-DLP DCI theater projectors or Barco's high end 3-DLP home theater projectors like the Thor. They're capable of ansi contrast of 650:1 - 1000:1.

It wouldn't be unusual to see full on / full off ratios of 1500:1 on a DCI theater display.

Even with technological advances over the last 20 years, I wouldn't automatically assume that you'd see better real world contrast on a $10,000 JVC home theater projector from 2020 than you would from their $200,000+ model from 20 years ago. Many of the fundamentals like lens quality have not changed.
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Zebra




Joined: 02 Jul 2020
Posts: 78
Location: NJ USA


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaydnG90 wrote:
If you thought finding spare parts was hard for a Barco 909 imagine the problems for this 18 year old monster. Hope they changed the Dallas chip......


Hardly anyone bothers to fix used digital projectors that they bought off Ebay for less than $2000. They aren't like CRT projectors.

The only user replaceable parts on digital projectors are lamps and filters. Maybe color wheels on some models.

If anything more serious happened, it wouldn't be worth the time or effort to fix it.
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AnalogRocks
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TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zebra wrote:
HaydnG90 wrote:
If you thought finding spare parts was hard for a Barco 909 imagine the problems for this 18 year old monster. Hope they changed the Dallas chip......


Hardly anyone bothers to fix used digital projectors that they bought off Ebay for less than $2000. They aren't like CRT projectors.

The only user replaceable parts on digital projectors are lamps and filters. Maybe color wheels on some models.

If anything more serious happened, it wouldn't be worth the time or effort to fix it.


When I buy A batch of projectors I do tend to swap parts to get one working. Alot of my repairs were from shipping damage. Most sellers don't know how to pack things. I've repaired 2 and rebuilt 2 so far.

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nettwerkjohn




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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guys

I'm sorely tempted on this one.

although, current hot list is barco rlm-w8 for the new theater.
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virusc




Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Massachusetts


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These DIL-a's were not good picture or contrast wise. I think they really did 100:1 and took 2 days to setup. Parts were not available 15 years ago never mind today. I remember their being high resolution and contrast light amp panels in them that were very rare towards the last unit made that went to something like xvga resolution and maybe slightly more than 100:1 contrast. Nightmare to setup and created a ton of heat and wore out fast.
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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember seeing on on eBay that had a "Full VGA" panel in it 2048x1536. It was listed for crazy money.
It did make me think "Hey finaly a projector that can handle the biggest resolution VGA cards can dish out"

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Zebra




Joined: 02 Jul 2020
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

virusc wrote:
These DIL-a's were not good picture or contrast wise. I think they really did 100:1 and took 2 days to setup. Parts were not available 15 years ago never mind today. I remember their being high resolution and contrast light amp panels in them that were very rare towards the last unit made that went to something like xvga resolution and maybe slightly more than 100:1 contrast. Nightmare to setup and created a ton of heat and wore out fast.


What is this based on?

I don't know of any digital projector from 2002-2009 (the period when the QX1G was sold) that took 2 days to set up. Digital projectors are almost always plug in n play. High end units usually come well color calibrated from the factory too

The QX1G used 1.30" 2048x1536 res chips. Or QXGA. There's no such thing as XVGA D-ILA chips . And it was a $225,000 rrp projector. It's not going to be comparable to the $5,000-$25,000 consumer models JVC (or anyone else) sold in that period.

None of the reviews complained about the image clarity, color or contrast. The only complaints were about it's weight and price. It's not like people hadn't seen what good looked like in 2002-2009...

This is only 2 years before Sony started selling it's Qualia 004 which was an excellent consumer 1080p LCOS (same tech as D-ILA). Display tech doesn't advance that quickly.

2 years after the Qualia Sony release it's first 4k LCOS theater projectors. The SRX-r105. This was a $70,000 LCOS projector (+ $20,000 for a lens). I've owned one of these and the image quality easily stands up to (and surpasses) most current home theater projectors.

The QX1G would have been in direct competition with Sony's SRX line for a few years (until JVC released it's own 4k SH7NLG).

With a unique projector like this, the only way you can know is by seeing it yourself. You can't extrapolate based on consumer devices that cost less than 1/10 of the price. Using the same type of display tech means nothing.

The only thing you can be certain of is that nobody would spend (or charge) $200k for a projector that didn't have a good image.
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