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Fixing missing pixel with lumagen
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SPL800




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Israel


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:57 pm    Post subject: . Reply with quote


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well something strange happened.

i noticed that the picture jumps on fast moving scene. (1080p@60 - lumagen - 1080p@58.13 - moome card - barco 1209s).
i put out the lumagen and connected the source directly to the moome card. i was surprised to discaver that the mooome card "fix" the picture almost completely on the screen i can see that the picture needs a very small h shift to the right.
can it be that the moome card has a build in time porch that fix the problem of the electron beam to "settle"?

thanks
shay
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16916
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. Changing the porch sizes on a video signal is complex and requires a video processor of some sort (like a Radiance) as you're changing the timings. The Moome card is an HDMI to RGB converter. It is not a video processor.

Kal

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SPL800




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Israel


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:33 pm    Post subject: . Reply with quote

kal wrote:
No. Changing the porch sizes on a video signal is complex and requires a video processor of some sort (like a Radiance) as you're changing the timings. The Moome card is an HDMI to RGB converter. It is not a video processor.

Kal

Hi kal
When connecting the source directly to moome card. I can see I don’t need to fix the missing info on the raster.
What can be the reason that when lumagen XE is in the chain. I need to put exact time porch to get full info on the raster?
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16916
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the image shifts when the Radiance is in the chain and not otherwise, the Radiance is shifting the image based on whatever Radiance settings you are using.

Kal

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jask




Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 9655
Location: kamloops BC


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shay, are you ceretain you are saving your changes correctly? Lumagen are not know for being the most consumer friendly of system menu designers and there was a known issue where the user could be mislead into believing a menu was saved when it was not:

https://www.avforums.com/reviews/lumagen-radiance-xe-3d-video-processor-review.204
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wanderer




Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 53



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are inputing to the Lumagen 1080P at 60hz and outputing that at 58.13Hz from the images you've shown. You will absolutely be skipping some frames on the output and that will show up as not smooth motion. Solution here is to calculate a 60hz output mode using your existing settings from Craigs excellent excel spreadsheet calculator, put that required value into the Lumagen and your motion issue should be solved.
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SPL800




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Israel


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have been told that Craig made excellent excel spreadsheet for porch timing.
can any one send link?
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wanderer




Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 53



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the Radiance FAQ here, this link has a shortcut to the XLS: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=362401#362401

I was going to suggest some timing, but I then saw you are at 2400 already for Htotal which is high. I'd instead then just suggest using a default Radiance provided 1080p60 timing and see what that looks like. I'd read the whole FAQ thread above as that will answer most questions.
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SPL800




Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: Israel


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:20 pm    Post subject: . Reply with quote

I was able to “Fix” the missing info on the left side of the screen with the H-phase on my Barco 1209s.
Now I will be happy to know what benefits I can get I from the lumagen XE that I have in the video chain?
Thanks
Shay
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16916
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Shay,

That's a bit of an open ended question. What you get out of the Radiance depends on what you're trying to change or fix. It's a swiss army knife of video processors. It's not something you just throw in between your sources and display and it makes everything better.

Some general info below - there's also more in our order page here: http://curtpalme.com/radiance.shtm
Including info on how it can be used to real time calibration of up to almost 5000 points.

Quote:
The Radiance is a true professional grade video processor which offers features that you can’t find anywhere else. Some of the notable features include:

- Built in Darbee image enhancement for a sharper more dynamic image. See before/after pics here: http://www.curtpalme.com/Darbee.shtm
This is also done on a per-input basis (so that you can, for example, have more enhancement on TV and less on Blu-ray).
- Advanced calibration features including being able to automatically calibrate the display to up to 4913 points (729 on the Radiance 2020) using ChromaPure Software and a meter. When done by hand people only calibrate to about 6 points so there’s often still a lot of inaccuracies. This is a giant step forward in terms of calibration accuracy as it not only allows to adjust the primaries and secondaries at the edges of the gamut boundary (100% saturation) but also compensates at thousands of points within the gamut (where most of the content we watch exists). Here’s a real world example that shows an example with the sorts of errors you may get: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32073
- This calibration is not something you can do by hand given the nearly 5000 points that need to be adjusted. It’s completely automated with ChromaPure software (so anyone can do it too actually - there’s no need to understand how calibration works). The Radiance then sits in the signal path permanently adjusting the image. Because it’s completely automated HT users are finding it quick/easy to do a calibration every few months as the bulb ages without having to call in (or pay for) a calibration specialist (though they’d only be doing it to 6 places anyway, not nearly 5000).
- 21 point Gamma adjustment to get perfect blacks - CRT is notorious for requiring a gamma boost, especially on the low end. If you’re not using something to bump the gamma today, this itself will make a big difference. See here for some before/after pics: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6861
- 21 point greyscale adjustment
- Noise reduction (reduce grain and mosquito noise on bad sources)
- Detail enhancement
- Aspect ratio control (if you like to stretch the image depending on whether you’re watching 4x3, 16x9 or 2.35:1 content, or have masking or a motorized screen)
- Be able to switch/stream/direct/split content (ie: more than one TV).
- Dozens of other features...

Both the existing Radiance line and the new Radiance Pro line offer all these features. The major difference is that the new Radiance Pro has 4K inputs.

From manual (as of June 2020):

• Up to 8 inputs (444X) or 4 inputs (424X) with resolutions up to 4k60 HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2
• Standard inputs are 9 GHz max. Inputs can be upgraded to 18 GHz in pairs
• Up to four outputs at resolutions up to 4k60 HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2
o The 444X models have up to four processed 9 GHz outputs (standard), which can be upgraded to two 18 GHz outputs and two audio only outputs
o The 424X models have up to two processed 9 GHz outputs (standard), which can be upgraded to one 18 GHz output and one audio only output
• Proprietary Lumagen No-Ring™ scaling
• HDR Dynamic Tone Mapping (DTM) for improved quality HDR sources on HDR, or SDR, displays
• CMS (Color Management System) using a 4913-point 3D Look Up Table (3D LUT) RGB color palette
• 21-point parametric grayscale and Gamma
• 10-bit processing for deinterlacing plus a 12-bit calibration pipeline
• Vertical Keystone correction
• Darbee Digital Visual Presence™ (DVP™) enhancement technology (for up to 1080p60 input rate)
• Support for both 2D and 3D anamorphic scaling without an anamorphic lens
• Convert common optional 3D formats to a required 3D format that is supported by the display
• Each input has 4 user configuration memories
• Each input user configuration memory has 8 resolution sub-memories (for HD inputs)
• Each resolution sub-memory is linked to one of 8 output configurations.
• 2:2, 3:2 and 3:3 pull-down for SD/HD film sources
• SD/HD video de-interlacing
• User programmable non-linear-stretch (NLS) mode
• 4:3, LBOX, 16:9, 1.85, 2.00, 2.20, 2.35, 2.40 and NLS input aspect ratios
• Programmable output aspect ratio from 1.10 to 2.50
• Large suite of test patterns
• Programmable input/output color-space
• Y/C-delay calibration
• CUE and ICP filtering
• Eight channel audio up to 192 kHz, DD True-HD™ 5.1, ATMOS™, DTS Master Audio™ and DTS:X™ Bitstream
• IR and RS232 control inputs (See Tech Tip 11 and 12 on the Lumagen.com support page)
• Internal USB-to-serial adaptor for command input or software updates.
• Wired IR format command input
• Universal, 100-240V, ~50/60Hz external 12 VDC 5 Amp power supply
• Radiance Pro 444X available as 2U or 1U height with same features. Note the 2U height will be discontinued when case stock exhausted.
• Radiance Pro 4242 comes in a 1U case (standard), or can be order in a compact case (424X-C)
• Optional rack mounting ears (except Radiance Pro 424X-C)


So the question becomes: What do you really need the Radiance for? What problems are you trying to solve? What benefits or features are you looking to add?

Kal

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