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projector upgrade time?

 
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loudmouse2



Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Portland, Oregon


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 8:25 pm    Post subject: projector upgrade time? Reply with quote


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Ok, enjoying "retirement" and looking for an upgrade from my Sanyo PLC XU74 for movies. DVD, and up to 1080p over component (does concast limit 1080p to HDMI only?).

I know just about any real projector would be a step way up. The sanyo is sure bright enough, but the black levels and extra light output are beyond hope. I mask the borders when watching 16:9 and movies and that helps a bit to tame the 4:3 light canon.

I do have the advantage of a light controlled room, so total darkness is possible.

How bad are the $100 no name PJs? Some of them claim 1080p native rez and contrast ratios over 1000:1.
The sanyo native rez is 786 and 350:1 contrast.

Any thoughts for upgrading on the cheap appreciated.
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Laputa



Joined: 20 Jan 2017
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

🙊
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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10847
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I looked at those $100 no-names a year or two ago, they CLAIMED 1080p. But if you managed to find any actual stats on them, usually the actual panel size was about 300x200 or something like that. They ACCEPT 1080p but they don't DISPLAY it. They just scale it down to their panel size.

Maybe it's improved since then, but I doubt you're going to get real 1080p and good contrast ratio for $100.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25635
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a guy stop me in a parking lot once asking if I wanted to see his great projector he had for sale.
I opened my trunk and showed him my JVC DLA-G150CL. He asked how much? I told him $23 000.
He said wow I bet that's a much better projector than the ones I sell. Mine are only $180 LOL

I did find the optical resolution of his cheap prjector. 800x480. Though there are el'extra-cheapo holliday projectors that do 320x200 like Gary said.

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16036
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
I had a guy stop me in a parking lot once asking if I wanted to see his great projector he had for sale.
I opened my trunk and showed him my JVC DLA-G150CL. He asked how much? I told him $23 000.
He said wow I bet that's a much better projector than the ones I sell. Mine are only $180 LOL

The irony is that that old JVC DLA-G150CL probably had a similar contrast ratio (600:1). A lot better resolution (1365x1024) and light output (100 ANSI lumens) of course. Wink

@loudmouse2: I'd look at a used JVC DLA (LCOS) that's a few years old. It won't be $100 however but probably under $1000-$1500.


Kal

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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10847
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
@loudmouse2: I'd look at a used JVC DLA (LCOS) that's a few years old. It won't be $100 however but probably under $1000-$1500.

+1. That's what I did -- 2.5 yrs ago I bought a 5-yr-old JVC DLA-RS45 off Craigslist for $850, including a spare bulb that I haven't even used yet. FABULOUS projector. I'm very happy with it.

Start haunting craigslist and ebay and you might find a bargain. There are a couple of JVCs on ebay right now for $200-$500 that would absolutely SPANK any $100 dime-store projector, e.g. this one.

It does look like the specs on sub-$100 projectors have improved quite a bit since I last looked. See e.g. https://bestsellersprojectors.com/top-10-best-projector-under-100/ -- the resolutions are mostly 480p with a few 720p, claimed contrast ratio 1000:1 to 3000:1 (which is pretty bad). Some claim 1000-3000 lumens but I don't believe them. The ones that say ANSI lumens are in the 100-200 range. (Not sure why a digital would have such high lumens but such low ANSI lumens... probably cheap components & cheap optics.)

The $100 projectors are OK if you just want to display a 40" or 50" diagonal image on the wall. With the small image you won't notice the reduced resolution. With 100-180 ANSI lumens you would get about 15-25 foot-candles on a 50" image, which is a good range. But if you want a big screen, those little projectors just don't have enough power or enough pixels.

Compare that to the JVC HD250 I linked above -- full 1080p resolution, 25000:1 native CR, 1000 ANSI lumens. The HD250 may be 10 yrs old, but the build quality, optical quality, color fidelity, etc are going to be vastly better than a junky little $100 toy. For a few hundred$$ more, you could get something from 2014 or 2015 with much better performance.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25635
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
I had a guy stop me in a parking lot once asking if I wanted to see his great projector he had for sale.
I opened my trunk and showed him my JVC DLA-G150CL. He asked how much? I told him $23 000.
He said wow I bet that's a much better projector than the ones I sell. Mine are only $180 LOL

The irony is that that old JVC DLA-G150CL probably had a similar contrast ratio (600:1). A lot better resolution (1365x1024) and light output (100 ANSI lumens) of course. Wink

@loudmouse2: I'd look at a used JVC DLA (LCOS) that's a few years old. It won't be $100 however but probably under $1000-$1500.


Kal


Yep, great Halloween projectors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXLKYoutF7U
I'd rather have a 15 year old $23 000 JVC vs a $99 2020 POS projector. Now, did I really need 9 of these? LOL Maye not but : SURPLUS!!! Can't help loving it.

OH yeah, you can also watch a movie on them too Wink

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16036
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Yep, great Halloween projectors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXLKYoutF7U
I'd rather have a 15 year old $23 000 JVC vs a $99 2020 POS projector. Now, did I really need 9 of these? LOL Maye not but : SURPLUS!!! Can't help loving it.

The only thing I'd be concerned about are replacement bulbs - are they still available? What do they go for?

Kal

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loudmouse2



Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Portland, Oregon


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the help, I think I got my mind right now.

I've been watching for a good used PJ for a few months now and will continue the hunt.
There doesn't seem to be a huge mid point selection of new PJs like on flat panel TVs, or I'm not finding them all.

This Epson was on my list but it annoyed me that it has composite instead of component input. I'd still use component for some stuff.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/epson-home-cinema-1060-1080p-3lcd-projector-white/5979124.p?skuId=5979124

Theater O' the garage has a 120" WIDE 4:3 screen, around 138" diag for 16:9 I believe.
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16036
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

loudmouse2 wrote:
This Epson was on my list but it annoyed me that it has composite instead of component input. I'd still use component for some stuff.

Manufacturers don't bother with component anymore as (a) few people use them, (b) DMCA years ago stopped permitting sources from passing HD over analog, limiting outputs to SD (the same rez as composite), and (c) component requires more parts than composite to implement. There's little reason to offer component on displays these days.

Kal

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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25635
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
Yep, great Halloween projectors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXLKYoutF7U
I'd rather have a 15 year old $23 000 JVC vs a $99 2020 POS projector. Now, did I really need 9 of these? LOL Maye not but : SURPLUS!!! Can't help loving it.

The only thing I'd be concerned about are replacement bulbs - are they still available? What do they go for?

Kal


I watch eBay for bulbs, $49 to $99 each few and far between or $1088 USD each, from JVC Laughing essentially the reason I own a bunch of them. If the bulb goes, change out the projector. Surplus.

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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes sense!

Kal

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loudmouse2



Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Portland, Oregon


PostLink    Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:

Manufacturers don't bother with component anymore as (a) few people use them, (b) DMCA years ago stopped permitting sources from passing HD over analog, limiting outputs to SD (the same rez as composite), and (c) component requires more parts than composite to implement. There's little reason to offer component on displays these days.

Kal


I'm so far behind the times in the theater.
My cable system DVR is old and will still pass 720p and 1080i over component, but I can only get 1080p over HDMI.
This worked fine with 1080p HDMI to my TV and component out to the garage to my Sanyo digital and Runco NEC PG6.

I still have DVD and HDD recorders that use component so I'll find a solution to get them to HDMI if I don't find a PJ with both component input and HDMI.

The Xbox One S Blu ray to 4k UHD TV setup in the living room is no hardship.
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loudmouse2



Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Portland, Oregon


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
kal wrote:
@loudmouse2: I'd look at a used JVC DLA (LCOS) that's a few years old. It won't be $100 however but probably under $1000-$1500.

+1. That's what I did -- 2.5 yrs ago I bought a 5-yr-old JVC DLA-RS45 off Craigslist for $850, including a spare bulb that I haven't even used yet. FABULOUS projector. I'm very happy with it.

Start haunting craigslist and ebay and you might find a bargain. There are a couple of JVCs on ebay right now for $200-$500 that would absolutely SPANK any $100 dime-store projector.

Compare that to the JVC HD250 I linked above -- full 1080p resolution, 25000:1 native CR, 1000 ANSI lumens. The HD250 may be 10 yrs old, but the build quality, optical quality, color fidelity, etc are going to be vastly better than a junky little $100 toy. For a few hundred$$ more, you could get something from 2014 or 2015 with much better performance.


I put the opening bid on the JVC HD250 you linked and won it. Way under $200 with shipping, ceiling mount, remote and new bulb included!

I think that will work great for my needs and it has a component input too.

Thanks so much for all the help!
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 16036
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool. Happy watching!

Kal

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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25635
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

loudmouse2 wrote:
garyfritz wrote:
kal wrote:
@loudmouse2: I'd look at a used JVC DLA (LCOS) that's a few years old. It won't be $100 however but probably under $1000-$1500.

+1. That's what I did -- 2.5 yrs ago I bought a 5-yr-old JVC DLA-RS45 off Craigslist for $850, including a spare bulb that I haven't even used yet. FABULOUS projector. I'm very happy with it.

Start haunting craigslist and ebay and you might find a bargain. There are a couple of JVCs on ebay right now for $200-$500 that would absolutely SPANK any $100 dime-store projector.

Compare that to the JVC HD250 I linked above -- full 1080p resolution, 25000:1 native CR, 1000 ANSI lumens. The HD250 may be 10 yrs old, but the build quality, optical quality, color fidelity, etc are going to be vastly better than a junky little $100 toy. For a few hundred$$ more, you could get something from 2014 or 2015 with much better performance.


I put the opening bid on the JVC HD250 you linked and won it. Way under $200 with shipping, ceiling mount, remote and new bulb included!

I think that will work great for my needs and it has a component input too.

Thanks so much for all the help!


Smokin' good deal! My first DILA G11 was $250 in 2011, second, DILA G150 $350, in 2012, my third, DILA G2000 (pro version of G150) was $450.
So based on the year and the fact you got a spare bulb I think your sub $200 price deserves a "YOU SUCK!" for getting such a good deal!

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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
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Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

loudmouse2 wrote:
I put the opening bid on the JVC HD250 you linked and won it. Way under $200 with shipping, ceiling mount, remote and new bulb included!

Awesome! I think you'll be MUCH happier with that than with a $100 Close-n-play projector. Mr. Green
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loudmouse2



Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Portland, Oregon


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the JVC Pj on Saturday and it's in really good shape.

The mount had about 100 of those security type screws so I didn't try to remove it for table top tests. Rigged a stand, cleaned the slightly dirty filter and fired it up.
Really easy setup and very good picture quality. Remote was new but to a different JVC PJ, seems to do every function though.

The bulb/lamp hours were at 3000 on what the seller said was the original bulb. I was worried it would pop at any minute.
I risked it and watched a movie while fiddling with every adjustment to make sure everything works.
Got it dialed in to a very nice watchable image within the first half hour of the movie. Nice!

Today I put the new bulb in and reset the hours to zero. I also cleaned the prism block and it did have some smudgy dirt on it.
Watched another movie.

WOW! Just WOW!
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AnalogRocks
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Posts: 25635
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schweeett! I had a bulb pop in a G-20U, sounded like a .38 going off. Made a hell of a mess in the projector. That had a bad igniter though.

In other projectors I've just re-set the bulb counter and kept using the projector. One of my G11U's is currently running that way for Halloween. It's dimmer than the projector beside it. Strangly in the video it looks brighter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXLKYoutF7U (left eye)

You need to post a screen shot or 2 from that projector.

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garyfritz



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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome! Glad it worked out so well! I have sure enjoyed MY "digital conversion."
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