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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Link Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:04 pm Post subject: Lifespan of shows (broadcast vs streaming) |
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Figured this deserved its own thread.... I was commenting on a comment Dragan elsewhere:
draganm wrote: | These 2 guys will f*ck it up, it will probably not even make it to 2nd season |
The interesting thing is, even if it's successful they may not make a second season. Why? The business model under streaming services is completely different from broadcast.
In regular broadcast shows you make money through advertising. The bigger the show, the more eyeballs you have on it, so the more you can charge those wanting to advertise. Have a great show that is well written season after season? Great! It'll regularly draws in viewers and they'll milk that thing for 10, even 20 seasons, until it falls off and something else more popular takes its place. It's all about eyeballs.
That was 10-20+ years ago. Fast forward to today's streaming services like Netflix, Prime (Amazon), etc. There is no advertising. They make money entirely based on monthly subscriptions. Having a popular show only matters out the gate, in the first season (maybe 2, max 3) as that's where they draw most of the new viewership because of that show.
This is one reason why Netflix and other streaming services always come up with new and very varied stuff, trying to pick up new subscribers. Nobody says "I've heard good things about the Netflix series XYZ and now that they're on their 8th season I think it'll finally subscribe". Along the same vein nobody says "I've heard good things about the Netflix series ABC that was on a few year back but there are only 2 seasons. I'd subscribe if there were 5.".
People also don't tend to drop off. Nobody cancels their Netflix account because their favourite show was cancelled after 3 seasons. That's because there's something else new and exciting to watch all the time as they keep coming up with new content which helps draw in new subscribers much more than a 4th season of some show. As a show continues season after season it makes less and less financial sense to keep it going. Netflix supposedly will rarely go beyond 3 seasons. They've also shortened seasons from the average of 13 shows to 10. Better off trying something new, all the time, to pick up new subscribers. Especially true with expensive shows I would imagine as they get into season 2 and 3. Want a season 4 of a really expensive to make show that isn't doing phenomenally? Forget about it.
There are some exceptions of course. Some good tidbits in this article:
https://deadline.com/2019/03/netflix-tv-series-cancellations-strategy-one-day-at-a-time-1202576297/
It's a different world!
Kal
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Lifespan of shows (broadcast vs streaming) |
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that all makes sense , but i have to believe that an Ultra popular show that has great viewership would be some incentive to keep it going. I canceled my Netflix DVD subscription because i realized I hadn't gotten a disc in months. When i went to see what i had missed out on, I realized the answer was nothing! the very few movies i actually want to see i get thru HBO at $15./month, and we got HBO in the first place strictly for GOT's. I have even considered dumping them, but there is some new stuff planned and some of their shows they ran we liked, like Crashing. We still also catch theater movies there, the few worth seeing
My wife watches Netflix, and I used to a lot, but i think they suck now. Can't remember last time i watched it. The shows you seem to be talking about are just not good. 8 to 10 episodes, 3 seasons, bland subject matter. Sure, each one has some following , but they are not GOT's , walking Dead, Rome, or Soprano's.
If it was up to me i would drop Netflix. You still need good writing, good acting, and expensive sets IMO to keep people.
kal wrote: | People also don't tend to drop off. Nobody cancels their Netflix account because their favorite show was cancelled after 3 seasons.
Kal | oh yeah, try me !
Right now we have
Hulu= Cheap,
HBO= Good,
Amazon Prime= good,
and Netflix = not particularly good and not cheap.
Guess which one i would dump if i had the only say?
Overall though, your right, the big picture formula has changed, thank God, HATED broadcast TV
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Link Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: Lifespan of shows (broadcast vs streaming) |
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draganm wrote: | that all makes sense , but i have to believe that an Ultra popular show that has great viewership would be some incentive to keep it going. |
Sure, there are exceptions.
Quote: | Amazon Prime= good,
and Netflix = not particularly good and not cheap. |
Maybe it's a US vs Canada thing but I'd reverse those two. I find Prime sucks with mostly B-movies and some very limited exclusive content, while Netflix has a lot of better A-list movies and much more exclusive content that is worth watching.
The Amazon interface sucks too in comparison. Can't have multiple profiles (WTF?), there's no "continue watching" list (you have to manually add it to your list), and a bunch of other quirky things. Weirdest one a copuple of days ago was it not being able to understand that when the last episode of a season ends it should continue on the next season instead of starting at episode 1 of the same season (which you've already watched).
Kal
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Lifespan of shows (broadcast vs streaming) |
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kal wrote: |
Maybe it's a US vs Canada thing but I'd reverse those two. I find Prime sucks with mostly B-movies and some very limited exclusive content, while Netflix has a lot of better A-list movies and much more exclusive content that is worth watching.
The Amazon interface sucks too in comparison. Can't have multiple profiles (WTF?), there's no "continue watching" list (you have to manually add it to your list), and a bunch of other quirky things. Weirdest one a copuple of days ago was it not being able to understand that when the last episode of a season ends it should continue on the next season instead of starting at episode 1 of the same season (which you've already watched).
Kal | weird, I haven't noticed any of those things.
So what are some good Netflix shows you liked? I am all done with "Nazi Mega-Weapons" , Black Mirror, and pretty much every other documentary.
A quick look shows a ton of garbage, mostly PC culture and Super-powers hero teenage sh*t.
and it could very well be just us, i know every region has a different menu
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12026 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Link Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Lifespan of shows (broadcast vs streaming) |
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draganm wrote: | So what are some good Netflix shows you liked? |
I've started watching "Star Trek: Enterprise" and it may show some promise. Maybe. But yeah, for the most part Netflix just seems to crank out a ton of crappy anime-wannabe shows &etc.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:41 am Post subject: Re: Lifespan of shows (broadcast vs streaming) |
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garyfritz wrote: | I've started watching "Star Trek: Enterprise" and it may show some promise. Maybe. | the one with Scott Bakula? I loved that show, it's the only Star Trek I even think of as Star Trek apart from the originals, the rest are dead to me
garyfritz wrote: | But yeah, for the most part Netflix just seems to crank out a ton of crappy anime-wannabe shows &etc. | pretty much what I'm seeing, so what the hell is Kal watching? Spoiled Canadian brat.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Link Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:42 am Post subject: Re: Lifespan of shows (broadcast vs streaming) |
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draganm wrote: | So what are some good Netflix shows you liked? |
Geez, offhand, that's difficult and somewhat irrelevant as everyone likes different things... there were many. Netflix released 371 series and movies in 2019 from what Google tells me. There are hundreds of websites that are happy to try and rank them.
Kal
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HaydnG90
Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 1335
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Link Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:42 am Post subject: |
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Well I'm totally impressed by the new Netflix/BBC Dracula mini-series that started yesterday. Great acting, production values and an interesting twist to the usual Count D tale
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9139220/?ref_=tt_urv
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Lifespan of shows (broadcast vs streaming) |
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thanks, I'll check it out. Anyone eating English Victorian's is OK in my book
kal wrote: | draganm wrote: | So what are some good Netflix shows you liked? |
Geez, offhand, that's difficult and somewhat irrelevant as everyone likes different things... there were many. Netflix released 371 series and movies in 2019 from what Google tells me. There are hundreds of websites that are happy to try and rank them.
Kal | chicken sh*t.
just admit, you like teenage Vampire drama's and we'll move on
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Ha! Nope. Last things I watched (off the top of head) that were Netflix originals were The Irishman, Narcos, Narcos Mexico, greatest events of WW2 in colour, Formula 1 drive to survive, umbrella academy, stranger things, my next guest needs no introduction (David letterman), Russian doll, Ozark, Master of None, and Sex Education.
Still meaning to watch Bill’s Brain, Peaky Blinders, Between Two Ferns the movie, godless.
A bit all over the place.
Kal
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12026 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Link Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Only thing I've seen on that list is Umbrella Academy, but I liked it a lot. Twisted imaginative story & characters.
Not on Netflix, but I watched Good Omens on Amazon Prime and REALLY liked it. Not surprising, considering Neil Gaiman, Terry Pratchett, David Tennant... Again, twisted and imaginative, and often hilarious. Even just the title sequence (music & animation) is awesome.
And those are about the only shows I've watched lately...
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Link Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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garyfritz wrote: | Twisted imaginative story & characters. |
This is one thing I've noticed about Netflix (which I suppose would be true about other streaming services too): They don't have to abide to any rules about what they can or can't show (ie. FCC rules if in the USA). They can do anything they please and much of the content we've watched over the recent years is pushing boundries. It's cool.
Kal
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AnalogRocks Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 26690 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Link Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:08 am Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | garyfritz wrote: | Twisted imaginative story & characters. |
This is one thing I've noticed about Netflix (which I suppose would be true about other streaming services too): They don't have to abide to any rules about what they can or can't show (ie. FCC rules if in the USA). They can do anything they please and much of the content we've watched over the recent years is pushing boundries. It's cool.
Kal |
Back in the day they called that
"Cable TV"
Ironically it still is cable TV if you think about it.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Umbrella Academy, LOL, teenage superhero crap. Stranger Things was ok for a little while simply due to all the 80's nostalgia they had, but got old quickly.
Ozark was well done, The Irishman was ok, but that whole Genre is really tired. How many more Italian Mafia can they possibly make, it's almost like that whole crowd just doesn't know what else to do. Even with that, it's still better than Gwyneth Paltrow getting her own infomercial on Netflix selling " Jade Eggs" to stuff up your Hoochy. A new low really, and one that might be the beginning of the end for them.
They had some good documentaries though, there's one Called Dirty Money if you want to know how the world really works, another one called Rotten about the food industry. Sadly, they don't have too many of those anymore, just adding a lot of garbage lately.
So i stand by my assertion that Netlflix isn't worth paying for anymore and that Amazon is eating their lunch(and I'm no fan of Jeff Bezos). Sorta sad as Netflix is really the pioneer here, but it's important to remember they are all just corporations making money, they come and go and that's normal.
AnalogRocks wrote: | Back in the day they called that
"Cable TV"
Ironically it still is cable TV if you think about it. | LOL, remember " On TV"? that was the first one i can remember and only certain people in my neighborhood had it. I think the ncie thing now is choice, we've been hoping ofr decades for choice, like the choice to dump Netflix, and it's finally here, YAY!
BTW, Did anyone see Ricky Gervais sh*t all over Hollywood culture at the Globes ? That was frickin AWESOME
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Link Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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draganm wrote: | So i stand by my assertion that Netlflix isn't worth paying for anymore and that Amazon is eating their lunch |
That's one person's opinion, which doesn't seem to follow what most others think. It's almost a year old but this paints a picture that is opposite of what you say:
Quote: |
"According to the most recent data from Streaming Observer, Amazon Prime Video has a library of 17,461 movies. That’s more than four and a half times as large as Netflix’s library of 3,839 movies, while Hulu has just 2,336 movies.
But then there’s the question of quality. Having more content than the competition is great, but do we actually want to watch any of those 17,000+ movies? Maybe not, because while Netflix has a whopping 592 movies that are Certified Fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, Prime Video has just 232. That’s only 9 more than Hulu.
In fact, Netflix has more Certified Fresh movies than Prime Video, Hulu, and HBO NOW combined. Nearly 16% of the movies on Netflix were well-reviewed by critics, while Amazon sits at a paltry 1.3%." |
Source: https://bgr.com/2019/01/28/amazon-prime-video-vs-netflix-movie-selection/
16% vs 1.3% is a huge difference. I guess all those reviewers on Rotten Tomatoes are wrong?
These guys here also agree that (as of Dec 2019) Netflix has the best content: https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/best-on-demand-streaming-services/
Choice is good, subscribe to whatever you like (we subscribe to both, as well as others).
Kal
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Last edited by kal on Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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HaydnG90
Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 1335
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Link Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:21 am Post subject: |
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draganm wrote: |
BTW, Did anyone see Ricky Gervais sh*t all over Hollywood culture at the Globes ? That was frickin AWESOME |
Total middle finger up to that self righteous, entitled community. Very refreshing
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:59 am Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | That's one person's opinion, which doesn't seem to follow what most others think. It's almost a year old but this paints a picture that is opposite of what you say:
16% vs 1.3% is a huge difference. I guess all those reviewers on Rotten Tomatoes are wrong?
Kal | No, they're not wrong, they have definitely proven that people love Teenage Superhero crap.
BTW, is anyone else frigging Flabbergasted at how much they keep making off that total shite? For f*ck*** sake, Captain America is the new Jesus, only problem is neither one of them is coming to save you, ever!
HaydnG90 wrote: | draganm wrote: |
BTW, Did anyone see Ricky Gervais sh*t all over Hollywood culture at the Globes ? That was frickin AWESOME |
Total middle finger up to that self righteous, entitled community. Very refreshing |
my Favorite part (from memory)
Quote: | " now when you come up here, don't try and make some political point or push some cause for the sake of humanity, because lets be honest, none of you have a f*cking clue how normal people live. So just shut-up, take you little award, thank your producer, and f*ck off! |
My god that man should be given an award of some kind for honesty.
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