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LCOS recommendations?

 
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archidan



Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Oregon


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:46 pm    Post subject: LCOS recommendations? Reply with quote


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I'm bothered somewhat by rainbowing and by the screen door effect quite a lot, so LCOS, SXRD, D-ILA seems to be the way forward for me and am hoping to get some guidance from the experts here.


Here are my considerations:

I need a throw distance of 12' and want a screen 6' wide.

I will be placing the pj behind a wall with optical glass sealing the opening, so fan noise is not a concern nor is weight/mounting. the only limit is size - it needs to be less than 25" deep.

There will be a single row of very low seating -the seat is only 7.5" high. the projector can be mounted at any height that will clear the head of the seated viewer.

Light control in the room is poor, and I'm ok with that. the carpet is dark, but the rest of the room is light. this is not a dedicated theater space, more of a lounge with a pj.

Primary source will be DVD and OTA. Secondary source will be a soon to be purchased Blu-ray player.

the screen has not been chosen, so its not limiting my pj choice at this time.

I have no interest in 3D, 4K, HDR. In fact, when I have viewed the newest flat panel TV's at Magnolia and Video Only I found them to be 'overwhelming' and unpleasant. My last (working) CRT was a Zenith Pro 900 that I ran at 600p 72hz or 1080i. That was satisfactory for me. I am of an age where I no longer seek the technical best in everything; I just want to have a good time.

Price is no concern, yet it is..... The sectional couch I am putting in the space was 18k, but it seems wasteful to buy more projector than I need, so I would like to go as cheap as I can here. As my resolution requirements are minimal I am thinking that is a reasonable goal, but let me know if i am way off base.

I would consider used/refurb, but really with electronics these days, I consider them all disposable / repair by replacement, and therefor am leaning towards new. I don't like things breaking.

Thank you for your advice,

Dan
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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10582
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: LCOS recommendations? Reply with quote

archidan wrote:
I will be placing the pj behind a wall with optical glass sealing the opening, so fan noise is not a concern nor is weight/mounting.

I wouldn't bother with the glass and resulting possible optical issues. Most projectors these days are whisper-quiet. My 7-yr-old JVC RS-45 is rated at 20 dB. I have it set in a shelf about 4 feet above/behind my head and it's barely audible from my seat. If you just put your pj behind the wall, projecting through a hole, you'll never hear it.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15711
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 to what Gary wrote. I have a JVC RS56 (after using a Zenith 1200/Barco Cine 8 CRT projector for years) and the JVC cannot be heard when in low fan mode. In high fan mode (used when the bulb starts to dim) the projector can be heard but I find the noise output very reasonable. For context I'm very fussy about projector noise and went to great lengths with all my CRT projectors to build an advanced husbox to try and reduce fan noise as much as possible as shown here: http://www.curtpalme.com/Hushbox1.shtm
The JVC at the noisiest is quieter than the CRT projectors I've had even when in the hushbox.

I've always liked JVC LCOS myself so that's probably what I'd look in to - something on the lower end given that you mentioned you have no light control in the room. Most of their projectors come in 3 'grades' for lack of a better word. Every time there's an upgrade, 3 are offered with the main difference being the contrast ratio/light output.

I'm curious what sort of $18K couch you have that is only 7.5" high!

Kal

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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10582
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I'm curious what sort of $18K couch you have that is only 7.5" high!

Yeah me too! Smile

Back to your "price is no concern, yet it is" comment... I bought my RS-45 used, with a spare new bulb, for $850 in 2017. I'm totally happy with it. Given your lack of light controls &etc, that's what I'd recommend. Find yourself a nice used JVC.
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archidan



Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Oregon


PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent - this is exactly the advice I'm looking for!

I went back and read Kal's write-up on his switch to digital - very helpful also

Kal, in my previous theater / living room, I'd actually taken many pages from your book - including a "shadow box" style construction. If digitals are working for you guys, they will probably work for me.

Are the Optical Issues you mentioned the need to tilt the glass, etc? I will probably still mount the pj behind the wall - there is space and it will be clean looking install.

playing with the D50 i have here....the gamma is awful - a tiny disposable digital i have shows greys/blacks better. time and technology do move forward. time to move with it.

I can't seem to post pictures, so here' is a link.
https://www.roche-bobois.com/en-PH/rochebobois/mah-jong-sofa-an-iconic-sofa

its so low that i figured i better get it and enjoy it while i still can. by the time its worn out, i will need one of those recliners that motorizes you up and out. Smile
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archidan



Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Oregon


PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Follow up question. Since I will be taking your advice and getting a used JVC, what does the rest of my video chain look like? I am assuming I don't need a box to scale (DVDO) and a box to adjust gamma (RTC2200) like I had with my old Zenith. I can just run a Blur-ray player str8 into this and the scaling for dvd will be done by the player or the pj itself - probably better than the old DVDO i had, no?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15711
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

archidan wrote:
Are the Optical Issues you mentioned the need to tilt the glass, etc?

Sorry, what optical issues?

Quote:
I can't seem to post pictures, so here' is a link.
https://www.roche-bobois.com/en-PH/rochebobois/mah-jong-sofa-an-iconic-sofa

Funny, Roche Bobois was my first guess when you mentioned the height and price. Those crazy french. Wink

For the rest of your video chain I'd suggest starting with absolutely nothing but:

1080p HD Source -> HDMI Cable -> 1080p JVC projector

And see how it looks. You definitely don't need a scaler and most likely won't need to adjust gamma (there are some adjustments in the projector for this). If you did need to adjust gamma/greyscale/etc you wouldn't be doing it in the analog domain. Scaling is done directly in the source, likely good enough as your DVDO. Most people are perfectly happy with a simple setup like this. If there are things that are off (gamma/greyscale/colour accuracy/poor scaling/etc) then those who want perfection tend to go for the only standalone video processor that's still around that is the proverbial swiss army knife of video adjustments: http://www.curtpalme.com/Radiance.shtm
With these you can calibrate to 20 points of greyscale and gamma plus adjust to almost 5000 points of colour from black to 100% saturation for extreme accuracy. You need a meter and an automatic calibration package to do this course (nobody calibrates to 5000 points by hand). More info: http://www.curtpalme.com/ChromaPure_Auto_Calibration.shtm

Kal

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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10582
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

archidan wrote:
Are the Optical Issues you mentioned the need to tilt the glass, etc?

I meant things like reflection/refraction artifacts, affecting the image if you don't use optical-quality glass, dust, stuff like that. You don't need the glass for noise isolation, so why put it in the optical path?
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15711
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah! Sorry guys - I thought the 'optical issues' question was directed at me as something I had written in my switch to digital writeup.

Gary is right: You don't want to project through glass unless you have to, and if you have to you want very special glass and a special setup. Like gary said, if you do put the projector in a different room and only have a small hole for the projector to shine through you seriously will not hear anything in the listening area. You won't hear much of anything even with the JVC LCOS in the same room to begin with. It's a non-issue, especially if you're used to having any CRT projector with a fan in it in the same room as you.

One thing I'll mention from your original post is that a 6' wide screen is pretty small - make sure the projector at 12' throw can actually do that. It probably can as that's a pretty close throw, but you should confirm.
Kal

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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10582
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if you're still worried about sound coming through the hole, make the hole a bit larger than necessary, and line it with a tunnel of sound-absorbing foam or similar. Then I guarantee basically NONE of the fan noise will get out.
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archidan



Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Oregon


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

home theater is all too easy now... I like it.

Good to know i can leave out the glass between rooms.

Ill post pics when its done - i have three months before the furniture arrives to find a used JVC

regarding the used JVC, doesn't it feel good when people ask for your advice and then actually take it?
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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10582
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

archidan wrote:
regarding the used JVC, doesn't it feel good when people ask for your advice and then actually take it?

I'm not sure. I don't think it's ever happened before. Laughing
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