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quick blank screens over 100ft of CAT5 component baluns

 
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proudx



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Atlanta, GA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:14 pm    Post subject: quick blank screens over 100ft of CAT5 component baluns Reply with quote


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guys this is in relation to my other post gamer2 yuv and blank screens. however, I created a seperate topic because the two may or may not be related.

Iím running component video over cat5 baluns and get random video/audio dropouts from a specific 720p 60hz source resulting in a black screen then the image comes back. The run is about 110ft.

Thinking I just needed a better Balun I changed out my Tripp light cat5 baluns for muxlab baluns and still get the drop outs but only on that specific 720p 60hz source.

The next step I took was to connect up another cat5 cable I had run. Still drop outs.

Next I moved the video output on my Extron to another known working output port on my Extron switcher and the dropouts still happen.

This same source is distributed to other TVs in the house with shorter runs and the droputs do not occur.

The setup is a hdfury2 gamer yuv connected to the output of a nintendo classic that gets converted to yuv and connected to an RGBHV/component extron matrix crosspoint switcher. The reason I did a seperate topic was could the HDFURY2 gamer YUV be the cause? I found this on the hkmod site.

(
My picture Ďblanks outí from time to time when using the HDfury2. Why is this happening?
Some of the very early HDfury2 units had a defect and these units were replaced. To determine if the issue is with the HDfury2 or elsewhere, use the following logic: - If the HDfury2 blue LED is OFF during the picture blanking, the problem is with the HDfury2. HKmod will replace it for you. - If the HDfury2 blue LED is ON during the picture blanking, the problem is with the the component (YUV) cable, RGB cable or the display.
)

update: I put a camera on the hdfury2 gamer yuv and the bluelight did not go out during the quick picture blanking on my remote display.

One would think that if that was the case i'd see the random blank outs on my other tvs connected to the extron matrix switchers? but thats not the case. It only happens on my 100ft run nitendo---gamer2-yuv-extroninput---extronoutput--muxlab-component-2-cat5 balun---100ftrun--muxlab-component-2-cat5-balun-bedroomTV. so could the the blank screens from the hdfury2 gamer yuv only show up under certain component source conditions, and certain output configurations such as length of component cable and specific component input of connect TV/projector?


I know its not the specific extron output dropping it because I can connect the muxlab component to 2 cat5 balnun to other output ports on the extron matrix switcher and same drops happen and when using those same ports to other tvs no dropouts happen.

I also know its not an issue with other sources connected to the gamer2 yuv as they do not show blank screens even at 720p to that long bedroom tv run.

also how would losing sync look on a component run? I know the cat5 cables do introduce significant skew as any source shows some shadowing/ghosting around letters and sharp objects.

if skew becomes too significant would this cause the component video to lose sync for a split second causing the screen black outs? also if this is the case you would think other sources at 720p connected to the hdfury2 gamer yuv would also have blank outs.

the other theory is the gamer2 RGB output level is not strong enough to not reach the longest run causing the random black screens. but again if that was the case wouldn't all connected source devices at 720p 60hz resolution through the gamer2 yuv have the same limited component output level at the other end?


the last theory is its just some EMI interference getting on the long cable runs causing the issue.



in Summary:
So either the hdfury 2 gamer yuv causing the blank screens on that specific nintendo classic under certain lengths or component input conditions at destination tv/project, I got 3 bad cat5e cables run to that location,multiple bad baluns, insufficient yuv output level causing sync loses for the Nintendo classic, or some kinda interference is causing the issue.
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proudx



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Atlanta, GA


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

another interesting data point is, the black screens happen more frequently when the weather is cold? odd I know.
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AnalogRocks
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

proudx wrote:
another interesting data point is, the black screens happen more frequently when the weather is cold? odd I know.


How's the humidity there right now?

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proudx



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Atlanta, GA


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
proudx wrote:
another interesting data point is, the black screens happen more frequently when the weather is cold? odd I know.


How's the humidity there right now?


Iím in Atlanta Georgia so the humidity is generally low n the winter and high in the summer.
Looking back this week my absolute worst day of getting the random blank screens was from Monday
Night until Tuesday evening. Looking at the weather data the temperature and humidity were very low during that time
Period like 30% or less. My best day was Thursday night with temperatures up cloudy and rainy and humidity near 100%.

Perhaps humidity factors into it.
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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I'm thinking. Low humidity = easier static build up and discharge. Any way to run the CAT5 cables through a power bar with grounding?
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proudx



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Atlanta, GA


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
That's what I'm thinking. Low humidity = easier static build up and discharge. Any way to run the CAT5 cables through a power bar with grounding?


Not sure how Iíd go about that. The cat6 cable is 24awg solid copper with an aluminum shield on the inside of the jacket with shielded cat6 connectors on each end with the drain wire connected to shielded connectors. On the Extron crosspoint distribution equipment end it has a 3 prong grounded plug and in general all the equipment connected to it in the distribution rack use this house ground. On my tv remote endsthe TVs are connected by 2 prong plugs and are not grounded. The only tv with the blank screen issue from the Nintendo source is the one that is furthest away. About a 110ft cat6 run. If itís static buildup and discharge it has to be near the end of the 110ft run. Since the shielded cat cable on this end connects to the tv and the tv only has a 2 prong plug then this end is really not grounded to earth? So I almost have to tie the cat5 shielded connector to the house ground via a wire or something at this end to drain the discharge

Where
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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try either a power bar or UPS with the ethernet in/out filtering at the TV that is getting the blanking issue. That may help.

Just had another thought does the extron have a level adjust either at the sending end or receiving end? A little boost to the signal may help??

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proudx



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Atlanta, GA


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Try either a power bar or UPS with the ethernet in/out filtering at the TV that is getting the blanking issue. That may help.

Just had another thought does the extron have a level adjust either at the sending end or receiving end? A little boost to the signal may help??


No level adjustment on the Extron. Think itís jusf a unity gain. But I think you might be on to something. If the voltage drops below a certain level the remote tv or Balun might just either start dropping the signal or outside interference is able to overcome the weak signal and take over it

My Nintendos current location is on a main floor and it feeds the HDfury and Extron via a 66ft+15ft long hdmi cable into a 3 way hdmi swiitcher to a 2 way hdmi spitter. One side of the splitter goes to the hdfury2 gamer - Extron component our to TVs via component. and the other side of the splitter my denon avr.

This is not a unique setup in that I have a psvitatv and steam link that feed into that same 3 way switcher with the psvitatv ha one a 75ft hdmi cable run and those devices do not blank out on the furthest 100ft remote tv.


So hdmi voltage output levels must very from hdmi source to hdmi source. This leads me to believe the Nintendo sends out a very weak hdmi signal. Whatís interesting ultimately this weak hdmi signs turns into a weak component signal post hdfury2 conversion? I was under the impression the output voltage after the hdmi to component or RGb conversion was consistent from source to source but that doesnít appear to be the case. If thatís true the solution would be to get the Nintendoís hdmi levels up high enough before they hit the HDfury2.


I did experiment tonight and moved the Nintendo from its current location remote and connected it via a 3ft cable direcrly to the 3 way hdmi switcher that feeds into the 2 way hdmi splitter then hits the hdfury2 and denon.

I tested my 100ft cat5 Balun remote tv and had not a single dropout in 60 minutes! Next i moved the Nintendo back to its original location and hooked up the 66ftcable+15ft and this time instead of hooking up the monoprice port saver to the 3 way hdmi switcher I coupled it to a 6ft cable intentionally making the signal worse.

The 100ft remote tv flickered off and on signal every 1 or 2 seconds. The TVs closer still showed a signal without the dropouts. Although one of them did look like the tv was Jittery and not smooth. All the time the hdfury2 light stayed lite a solid blue.

Next I removery the extra 6ft coupled cable and put back on the monoprice port saver and connected it back. Less dropouts but still dropouts To my 100ft remote tv. I even tried connecting to different ports on the 3 way switcher and some of them even worse than the original port.

Not really wanting to give up this 3 way hdmi switcher just yet to increase signal strength I next said letís try this withour the monoprice 8Ē port saver and connect the 66ftplus15ft hdmi cable directly to this switcher. 60 minutes so far and not a single drop out. Keeping fingers crossed.

So Input signal strength appears to be key
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proudx



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Atlanta, GA


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

proudx wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
Try either a power bar or UPS with the ethernet in/out filtering at the TV that is getting the blanking issue. That may help.

Just had another thought does the extron have a level adjust either at the sending end or receiving end? A little boost to the signal may help??


No level adjustment on the Extron. Think itís jusf a unity gain. But I think you might be on to something. If the voltage drops below a certain level the remote tv or Balun might just either start dropping the signal or outside interference is able to overcome the weak signal and take over it

My Nintendos current location is on a main floor and it feeds the HDfury and Extron via a 66ft+15ft long hdmi cable into a 3 way hdmi swiitcher to a 2 way hdmi spitter. One side of the splitter goes to the hdfury2 gamer - Extron component our to TVs via component. and the other side of the splitter my denon avr.

This is not a unique setup in that I have a psvitatv and steam link that feed into that same 3 way switcher with the psvitatv ha one a 75ft hdmi cable run and those devices do not blank out on the furthest 100ft remote tv.


So hdmi voltage output levels must very from hdmi source to hdmi source. This leads me to believe the Nintendo sends out a very weak hdmi signal. Whatís interesting ultimately this weak hdmi signs turns into a weak component signal post hdfury2 conversion? I was under the impression the output voltage after the hdmi to component or RGb conversion was consistent from source to source but that doesnít appear to be the case. If thatís true the solution would be to get the Nintendoís hdmi levels up high enough before they hit the HDfury2.


I did experiment tonight and moved the Nintendo from its current location remote and connected it via a 3ft cable direcrly to the 3 way hdmi switcher that feeds into the 2 way hdmi splitter then hits the hdfury2 and denon.

I tested my 100ft cat5 Balun remote tv and had not a single dropout in 60 minutes! Next i moved the Nintendo back to its original location and hooked up the 66ftcable+15ft and this time instead of hooking up the monoprice port saver to the 3 way hdmi switcher I coupled it to a 6ft cable intentionally making the signal worse.

The 100ft remote tv flickered off and on signal every 1 or 2 seconds. The TVs closer still showed a signal without the dropouts. Although one of them did look like the tv was Jittery and not smooth. All the time the hdfury2 light stayed lite a solid blue.

Next I removery the extra 6ft coupled cable and put back on the monoprice port saver and connected it back. Less dropouts but still dropouts To my 100ft remote tv. I even tried connecting to different ports on the 3 way switcher and some of them even worse than the original port.

Not really wanting to give up this 3 way hdmi switcher just yet to increase signal strength I next said letís try this withour the monoprice 8Ē port saver and connect the 66ftplus15ft hdmi cable directly to this switcher. 60 minutes so far and not a single drop out. Keeping fingers crossed. Although humidity is 80% now.

So Input signal strength appears to be key
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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about adding an HDMI booster/equalizer between the Nintendo and the long cable run? That may allow you to keep your orignal setup.
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jask



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PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am thinking you have a damaged conductor, if it was a termination issue it would not be temp. dependent... and I have seen examples of similar problems on network cables that were mishandled. try making up a single continuous temp cable of the same length from know good ( new ) cable .. lay it out and hook it up..
I have not read the whole thread but if your HD fury is at the end of a dodgy cable run with noisy switches and inconsistent terminations you end up with garbage in = garbage out.... but the fact that temp is an obvious factor makes me think you have a conductor that is variable based on temperature.
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proudx



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Atlanta, GA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
How about adding an HDMI booster/equalizer between the Nintendo and the long cable run? That may allow you to keep your orignal setup.


Still going strong.
Ran for another 90 minutes no dropouts! 50 degrees and 56% humidity.

Seriously removing monoprice 8Ē 28awg port saver is the only difference. I suspect removing it improved the signal enough to make it to the remote tv. Although I canít image that port saver would have too much loss so my signal is prob still marginal. Iíll keep an eye on it but so far so good.

I guess it could be a bad conductor but I think itís likey The Nintendo classic has a weak hdmi output level and by the time it reaches the furthest tv the signal flaps.

The current working configuration is Nintendo classic hdmi output at 720p 15ft hdmi cable ó coupler ó- 66ft cable ó-
Jtech digital 3x1 auto switcher plugged into port 3 ó 2 way monoprice hdmi minispliter ó Denon avr and hdfury2 ó gamer-yuvó extron crosspoint ó muxlab component to cat5 ó 100ft run - muxlab cat5 to component - led tv.

To further improve signal i guess I could add a hdmi equalizer in place between the 15ft hdmi cable and the 66ft run. Think I will leave off the monoprice port saver perm.
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proudx



Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Atlanta, GA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: update Reply with quote

Still going strong no dropouts. Now i am moving on to focus on quality. The muxlab output has some unusual smearing of the image? See attachment, you ever seen anything like that? this happens on any video source and shows up on any connected tv. I tried 4 different muxlab 50058 baluns, so it either hates the cat6 cables I am using, or hates the output of the extron crosspoint scaler. see attached picture.

Going back to the tripp lite b136-101 baluns as they don't have this smearing just exhibit some ghosting, likely caused by the skew in the cat cable i am using.



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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

proudx wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
How about adding an HDMI booster/equalizer between the Nintendo and the long cable run? That may allow you to keep your orignal setup.


Seriously removing monoprice 8Ē 28awg port saver is the only difference. I suspect removing it improved the signal enough to make it to the remote tv. Although I canít image that port saver would have too much loss so my signal is prob still marginal.


Every connection adds signal loss. I know a ham radio guy that use to bypass all conector and solder his co-axial cables to the antenna and the motherboard of the ham radio he was using. Nuts! That's an extreme point but i have seen signal issues with TV antennas where 2 pieces of 12 foot co-ax wouldn't give a stable signal where as one 25 foot piece did, even though it was a foot longer. Signal loss at the coupler.

Best way for any signal run is one continuous cable where ever possible.

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