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Retro gaming & high refresh rate - rare Barco model?
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nortica



Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 9



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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robin36mac wrote:
you will see the scan lines.



Well I sure hope so Mr. Green


robin36mac wrote:

In my opinion it would be better to use a quite higher resolution with a lower refresh rate (1280*1024@160 at minimum, or 1600*1200@140)


Yeah, I would probably be doing that for most of them anyway. It's just that some DOS games are limited to 640x480 or 800x600, and then I just generally wanted to know how far I would be able to push it.

And as for the "Blackrange" again. Are you assuming that it's of a similar make because of the date of manufacture? Because I do not want to wake up to a measly 80hz @1600x1200, in case it's really just a standard 808 model Mr. Green
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nortica



Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 9



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gjaky wrote:


No 8" CRT projector worth 900€ regardless of condition!


It's nowhere near what I would be willing to pay anyway. As I said, there is another one listed at 250, but with 7000 hours. I would have been willing to pay 400-500 maybe, depending on usage & condition, if it is indeed a model with a 240hz refresh.

But now that I know a BarcoReality exists, I'd rather stay on the lookout for that model.
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nortica



Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 9



PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was able to gather a bit more information by reading through some old posts on avforums.com

According to a Barco FAQ i found there, prior to March 2003 all Cine 8 models used Sony 07MFP2 tubes, whereas all Cine 8 models beyond that date (aka "Blackrange") use MEC / Panasonic 180DVB22 tubes, same as all Barco 808 Data & Graphics models (with the sole exception of the 808s Graphics, which also uses Sony tubes).

Is it possible to gauge some more specs from this?



Source, in case anyone's interested:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/barco-faq.757690/
https://www.avforums.com/threads/light-streaks-in-dark-scenes.28995/#post-1877047
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23662
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe that's quite accurate. The only sets using the Sony tubes were the BG808s sets, all other models, as early as 1994 or whenever the 808 came out, used the DVB tubes. Certain models used the slightly sharper P16 tubes. I believe all Cine 8 series sets used the Panasonic tubes, whether the 180DVB or the P16 tubes.
I used to retrofit the odd BG808s tubes to work with the Panasonic tubes. A g2 pin mod was needed, as well as the Panasonic tube mounting frames. Everything else was the same.
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Curt Palme
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This, from your first link pretty much supports my statement above:

A: The Barco 808s can be considered as a MKII model, they have several electrical enhancements over non S models and include extra's like gamma corrections in software. The Graphics 808 non S uses MEC tubes, the Graphics S uses Sony tubes. Both Data non S and Data S models use the MEC tubes. Non S models do not accept Component video, S models all do. The non S models were made from late 1994 to late 1996 then all 808 projectors became S models. Non S models are cheaper and have similar overall performance, given the price difference they represent a good buy if the tubes are in perfect condition. Graphics S projectors with Sony tubes are generally considered to have a slightly more accurate overall colour balance, but the MEC tubes are often just a little sharper. Both tube types can be as good or as bad as each other, depending on actual condition. As from March 2003 (Black Range models) the Cine 8 uses MEC tubes instead of the Sony ones.
Q: What is the difference between 808s Graphics and Data models?
A: 808s Graphics have:
*
Sony 07MFP2 tubes
*
120 MHz RGB amplifiers
*
Stepless Scheimpflug adjustment
*
110 kHz horizontal scan rate
808s Data have:
*
MEC Panasonic 180DVB22 tubes
*
75 MHz RGB amplifiers
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nortica



Joined: 28 Dec 2018
Posts: 9



PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad
Well in that case I'm back at where i started...
Thanks for taking the time to go through that FAQ again!
Do you think there would be any point in trying to contact Barco directly and ask for information about such an old product? Unfortunately the seller is not very forthcoming.
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2626
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No matter what cine 8 version that is, it won’t go past 210Hz refresh rate, and that is because the 110kHz horizontal scan rate limit. The datasheet for the cine 8 digital is misleading in this regard... Also for practical purpose it really does not matter that if it is using Sony or Panasonic tubes, however if I say that the latest generation of Sony projectors also used Panasonic tubes, that explains all.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mentioned earlier that 240Hz on an LCD looked better than lower refreshes. Don't confuse that to mean that the same will be true for CRT because it isn't. There's really no point in going above about 120Hz on a CRT projector for gaming. You won't notice a difference.

Hour count on CRT projectors is meaningless. It all depends on what shape the tubes are in and to determine that you need to look at them in person. If a seller can't give you even very basic information (like the model number) after you ask, walk away.

Kal

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Curt Palme
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TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nortica wrote:
Sad
Well in that case I'm back at where i started...
Thanks for taking the time to go through that FAQ again!
Do you think there would be any point in trying to contact Barco directly and ask for information about such an old product? Unfortunately the seller is not very forthcoming.


They will probably direct you here. Smile
I called them years ago to ask some random question, and the guy at Barco knew who I was, and said that they would send all CRT owners to my site as they couldn't be bothered (paraphrasing here) to give free tech support. You could have bowled me over with a feather.

I've never seen that late of a Barco 808, so there's not going to be a lot online for it, as Barco really didn't put up much info in the dying days of CRT.
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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nortica wrote:

There is usually a trade-off with big screen gaming vs. gaming on small monitors, and at least modern projectors are almost all limited to 60hz. So the bigger you go, you usually loose motion clarity (and utilizing frame interpolation isn't ideal for games). I just now found out that this problem doesn't seem to exist with CRT technology. Movement at 240hz does appear more smooth compared to 120hz, at least on an LCD. The mere fact that i could get those sort of numbers on the big screen, and with the natural advantages of CRT at that, has me intrigued. I certainly would like to see 90s space sim games on the big screen, running at 200hz & with the image depth that only a CRT can provide. I was in the market for a home cinema projector anyway, so it would be nice if I can make this work.



i remember the first time I hacked DUKE NUKEM 3D to run at 1600x1200 on my then new 17 high res monitor. Looked soo good.

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