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Downscaled Ultra HD Blu-ray vs Blu-ray?

 
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Corleone88



Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 396
Location: France


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Downscaled Ultra HD Blu-ray vs Blu-ray? Reply with quote


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Hello,

I am tempted to purchase a very good 4K Bluray player because some movies look terrific in 4K and much better than the 1080p version (not only due to better resolution or HDR). For example, Mission: Impossible is sold in a box included the 4K version and the old BR. The BR is apparently pretty bad and the 4K version looks amazing.
I own a Barco 1209s and I will also purchase a OLED 4K TV. I already have a XBox One S but I was wondering if I have a 4K player with a very good downscale process, would I get a nicer picture with a 4K movie downscaled to 1080p than with the BR 1080p of the movie?
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2621
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind that with such "special offers" it can be very much intentional to have the predecessor format mastered to look bad, as this is also part of the marketing catch.
Or with other words if the 4K version and the 1080p version was mastered from the same source then the 4K downscaled to 1080p at the user's player should be the same (or even worse) as the "original" 1080p version, because the producers should essentially do the same downconversion through the mastering process only that they use studio grade equipments than "cheap" BR players.
I just want to point out that probably the source material has the greatest influence on the outcome, and not the gear used.

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15673
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's probably talking about this set:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Mission-Impossible-4K-Blu-ray/202922/

The issue here is that they completely remastered the movie for the 4K version and then in the box simply included the older 1080p Blu-ray from 11 years ago that was known to be a crappy transfer. So in this case I would imagine that the 4K downrezzed to 1080p would look a lot better than the older 1080p version that came out 11 years ago.

This wouldn't be every movie of course, but given that 4K is fairly new, you'd expect that most of the time the 4K transfer down-rezzed to 1080p would look at least as good as the 1080p only Blu-ray if not better. For recent movies the difference would probably be close to zero given that both the 4K and 1080p discs would have been mastered the same way.

Kal

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Corleone88



Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 396
Location: France


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok.Thanks for your answers. An Ultra Bluray player like the Panasonic UB820 playing a 4K Bluray outputting in 1080p would look better than the Bluray equivalent (assuming that the transfer has been done correctly) played on a OPPO 103 for example?
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corleone88 wrote:
Ok.Thanks for your answers. An Ultra Bluray player like the Panasonic UB820 playing a 4K Bluray outputting in 1080p would look better than the Bluray equivalent (assuming that the transfer has been done correctly) played on a OPPO 103 for example?

No, if the transfers are identical, they should look close to identical.

Kal

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Tomwhite



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Commack ny


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey forum, Tom white here, about the 4K question, I've found that it does look better and I'm only using a 720p optoma. Just set the output res. In the player menu, I'm using a Sony. Don't forget the 4K player will give you atmos. Most of the time the 4K version is 5or6$ more than the br alone . I don't plan on buying a lot of any format ever again, still have over a 100 lds in the basement, maybe I can scrap them for the aluminum. Hope this helps. Ps. I still like watching my lds every now and then, just picked up the criterion version of 2001 in cav ,spent 9$ had to have it, I think I need help.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25395
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tomwhite wrote:
Hey forum, Tom white here.....

....just picked up the criterion version of 2001 in cav ,spent 9$ had to have it, I think I need help.


Get outta mah head LOL Laughing I would totally do the same thing.

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Tomwhite



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Commack ny


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey analog, tom here, there's probly to many people in there already, the voices in mine are telling me to pick up the marquee 8000 that's for sale again by me wasn't for sale for a while , now it's back up, I'll have to choose between my wife (love her a lot) and the pj I guess. Hey happy holidays to all on the forum, I have to check in more often. Ps hope to get 2001 in 4K for xmas.
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Corleone88



Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 396
Location: France


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the quality of the downscaling vary with 4K players?
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Tomwhite



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Commack ny


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi corleone, tom here, I wouldn't know, only owned the Sony, it's a good player but a little glitchy freezes up a lot, also I screwed up and did a firmware update, now it won't play well with my hdmi splitter, idiot!!!!! I would imagine that they're all preaty close though. Have fun in France, happy holidays.
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Corleone88



Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 396
Location: France


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,
I ordered a Panasonic UB420. What I don't know it is how the player manages the HDR during downscaling. Is it an option which can be removed easily?
Happy holidays to you too Smile
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Tomwhite



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Commack ny


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi tom again, I'm think the HDR will only work on a display that's HDR comparable, the Sony has a HDR conversion option in the video menu , maybe someone on the forum will have more info, it can't hurt to get the better player any way it'll still make a great regular bluray player. Good luck tom.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25395
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI Tom, I thought I wold mention; Curt is blowing out a bunch of tubes. Many that would work for a Marquee 8000. He's ditching them this weekend though so act fast. For sale thread here: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=483796#483796
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jbmeyer13



Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1130



PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:


This wouldn't be every movie of course, but given that 4K is fairly new, you'd expect that most of the time the 4K transfer down-rezzed to 1080p would look at least as good as the 1080p only Blu-ray if not better. For recent movies the difference would probably be close to zero given that both the 4K and 1080p discs would have been mastered the same way.

Kal


Hey Kal,

I did an experiment with Die Hard and The Last Jedi using an Oppo-203 to down convert 4K to 1080p and I couldn't get the 4K disc to match the 1080p BD's overall picture quality. I fiddled with the tone mapping and the closest I could get was a setting of 50 nits (stripped the meta data, HDR turned off) but there was a lot more noise in the image. The 4K HDR Last Jedi being a more recent film was pretty close to the SDR 1080p BD but there was still noise present in the image.

The whole HDR thing (and the accompanying mastering process) is a hot mess which will probably take years to sort out if ever. Even if the tone mapping could theoretically be adjusted in the player to arrive at a satisfactory result I wouldn't want to spend the time doing that for each film. Like with most any audio or video signal, too much digital manipulation never produces a better result (IMO).

Regards,

Justin

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15673
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting! Agreed that less manipulation is usually better (and that HDR is a mess!).

Kal

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