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Edge blend 2 x Barco 919 tryout
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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2771
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Did you manage to finish your blend project?
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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2771
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just had a read of this thread again. There sure is a lot of talk about blending but its really short on action and results. Did anyone who said they were going to blend a couple of 909s actually do it? Laughing Laughing
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone would like to donate two 909's to me I'll gladly try a blend, eventually, maybe when I get around to it. Wink
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ElTopo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1510



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No i don't give my Barcos away Cool
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nidi



Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 198
Location: Switzerland


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

km987654 wrote:
Just had a read of this thread again. There sure is a lot of talk about blending but its really short on action and results. Did anyone who said they were going to blend a couple of 909s actually do it? Laughing Laughing


MadMrH did it, they (909) are still hanging there, after all those years.

hope he gets around getting them back to operation till this fall.

Amazing picture , very small screen , tons of light when I saw it over 10 years ago.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
No i don't give my Barcos away Cool


I was thinking more of a long term loan, like displaying in a museum. Very Happy

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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2771
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nidi wrote:
km987654 wrote:
Just had a read of this thread again. There sure is a lot of talk about blending but its really short on action and results. Did anyone who said they were going to blend a couple of 909s actually do it? Laughing Laughing


MadMrH did it, they (909) are still hanging there, after all those years.

hope he gets around getting them back to operation till this fall.

Amazing picture , very small screen , tons of light when I saw it over 10 years ago.


Its certainly great that someone has actually blended two 909s. It would be good if we could get some onput from those who have done this. By input i mean what to do and what not to do information. Which blenders work and tge mechanical setup. Of course some images of the setup.
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ElTopo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1510



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two Barco 909's with brand new LUG's (colored c-elements) and HFQ900 here.

A matching pair for a potential blend Thumbs Up

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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
I have two Barco 909's with brand new LUG's (colored c-elements) and HFQ900 here.

A matching pair for a potential blend Thumbs Up


Alright, just drop those in the mail box, address to AnalogRocks, Toronto, Canada. They'll make it to me no problem. Laughing

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Mad Mr H



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 641
Location: London , England


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nidi has woken me from hibernation,

He better bring Chocolate with him.

Back in the day when Noah landed his boat things were in pairs and so a blend seemed like a sensible idea Rolling Eyes

The choices were analogue way 'diventix' or TVONE various modules, Barco did a PCB in projector option AND a serious hardware option that I have only seen one system and beyond home CRT finance (large venue / building coverage hire systems)

Analogue way was sadly an unsupported unit even prior to its release - It was built from a concept that was out sourced and so on release updates were not possible and I think just brought to market to add to a line up , it 'worked' but glitchy unstable and did not advance - So much outlay to get these to market at the time.

TV One have a UK and USA base, Lucky for me at the time one of the hardware system designers had a Nissan 300ZX , I also had one heavily modified so a great talking point.
TV one then needed a SDI HD source - I had the first SDI HD DVD player (Yes kids, that's a real format that did exist!) so I lent them mine.
My background is 30+ years in Pro AV so I knew or used these products prior to my own system

TV One were then going to help with a custom firmware for my blend.
If you use the TV one blend with CRT it is possible to see 'steps' per colour (RGB) in a test image within the roll off area.
If my memory is correct this used an 8 bit step so the 'bit depth' when used with CRT projection could do with more bit depth / data.
In actual use this step was not visible.
It was agreed that a custom 'LUT' look up table could be produced for my system, The engineer then moved company and so that custom work did not happen.
That would be around 10 years ago.

I have a hubble colourimeter NIST calibrated at the time - kit like that essential to blend

I started with a TVONE 7200 I think - 7000 series with SDI input, Then I got a deal on 2000 series TV One units - The 7000 was dual ch, the 2000 were 1ch so you used a pair. I have not tried any recent units.

You really need a Blu Ray player with THREE HDMI outs one for each blend unit and one for audio for the cleanest starting path. I only ever found a twin HDMI out so went HDMI to the blend and analogue to audio pre

Image - well without question I am lucky to have seen it and so did a few others that visited, Without question nothing has ever come close, the room is total blackout - That is a real issue for the human brain, in a total black room you loose perception of distance and the brain really can't deal with that.
But with an image running and zero external light and every surface built as non reflective, screen specific for blending to reduce / eliminate colour (Color!) shift then the most incredible image is seen.

Like it or not HD DVD always had a higher quality image than Blu Ray - Please respect my opinion on that, Many did not believe until they viewed my system and then it was obvious, at this point the system showed blu ray defects.

What was stunning about the image was that without question it was three dimensional on the screen, the image whilst flat had a depth that was breathtaking and noticed by all that viewed. I believe this was helped by the 8 foot wide screen and so the contrast ratio was massive.

Lots of things need to come together to create the perfect blend

I will one day power the system up again,
I could do with adding a few 909 spares to my stock just to have rather than needed

Thank you for reading,
Nidi - I'm going back into hibernation as I need my beauty sleep
Andy.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes it's not just a thread resurection...

Good to hear your thought's Mad Mr H!

_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2771
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mad Mr H wrote:
Nidi has woken me from hibernation,

He better bring Chocolate with him.

Back in the day when Noah landed his boat things were in pairs and so a blend seemed like a sensible idea Rolling Eyes

The choices were analogue way 'diventix' or TVONE various modules, Barco did a PCB in projector option AND a serious hardware option that I have only seen one system and beyond home CRT finance (large venue / building coverage hire systems)

Analogue way was sadly an unsupported unit even prior to its release - It was built from a concept that was out sourced and so on release updates were not possible and I think just brought to market to add to a line up , it 'worked' but glitchy unstable and did not advance - So much outlay to get these to market at the time.

TV One have a UK and USA base, Lucky for me at the time one of the hardware system designers had a Nissan 300ZX , I also had one heavily modified so a great talking point.
TV one then needed a SDI HD source - I had the first SDI HD DVD player (Yes kids, that's a real format that did exist!) so I lent them mine.
My background is 30+ years in Pro AV so I knew or used these products prior to my own system

TV One were then going to help with a custom firmware for my blend.
If you use the TV one blend with CRT it is possible to see 'steps' per colour (RGB) in a test image within the roll off area.
If my memory is correct this used an 8 bit step so the 'bit depth' when used with CRT projection could do with more bit depth / data.
In actual use this step was not visible.
It was agreed that a custom 'LUT' look up table could be produced for my system, The engineer then moved company and so that custom work did not happen.
That would be around 10 years ago.

I have a hubble colourimeter NIST calibrated at the time - kit like that essential to blend

I started with a TVONE 7200 I think - 7000 series with SDI input, Then I got a deal on 2000 series TV One units - The 7000 was dual ch, the 2000 were 1ch so you used a pair. I have not tried any recent units.

You really need a Blu Ray player with THREE HDMI outs one for each blend unit and one for audio for the cleanest starting path. I only ever found a twin HDMI out so went HDMI to the blend and analogue to audio pre

Image - well without question I am lucky to have seen it and so did a few others that visited, Without question nothing has ever come close, the room is total blackout - That is a real issue for the human brain, in a total black room you loose perception of distance and the brain really can't deal with that.
But with an image running and zero external light and every surface built as non reflective, screen specific for blending to reduce / eliminate colour (Color!) shift then the most incredible image is seen.

Like it or not HD DVD always had a higher quality image than Blu Ray - Please respect my opinion on that, Many did not believe until they viewed my system and then it was obvious, at this point the system showed blu ray defects.

What was stunning about the image was that without question it was three dimensional on the screen, the image whilst flat had a depth that was breathtaking and noticed by all that viewed. I believe this was helped by the 8 foot wide screen and so the contrast ratio was massive.

Lots of things need to come together to create the perfect blend

I will one day power the system up again,
I could do with adding a few 909 spares to my stock just to have rather than needed

Thank you for reading,
Nidi - I'm going back into hibernation as I need my beauty sleep
Andy.



Okay finally someone who has actually built a blend with Barco gear.

So a TVone 7100 is a good blender?

You say you can't see the stepped gamma in the blend Zone. Nash was unhappy when the used TVone processors for his blend for this very reason. Is he being too hard.
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ElTopo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1510



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ohhh i forgot i have a 3rd one here also with new tubes Thumbs Up Shocked
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Hulio



Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 342
Location: Belgium


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
Ohhh i forgot i have a 3rd one here also with new tubes Thumbs Up Shocked


Need a 4-th one ? 😜
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25470
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hulio wrote:
ElTopo wrote:
Ohhh i forgot i have a 3rd one here also with new tubes Thumbs Up Shocked


Need a 4-th one ? 😜


Who doesn't?

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Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
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ElTopo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1510



PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey,

any further update on the blend project ?


ElTopo

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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2771
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
Hey,

any further update on the blend project ?


ElTopo


Its interesting but only talk it seems. Neutral
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jbmeyer13



Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1131



PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

km987654 wrote:
Mad Mr H wrote:
Nidi has woken me from hibernation,

He better bring Chocolate with him.

Back in the day when Noah landed his boat things were in pairs and so a blend seemed like a sensible idea Rolling Eyes

The choices were analogue way 'diventix' or TVONE various modules, Barco did a PCB in projector option AND a serious hardware option that I have only seen one system and beyond home CRT finance (large venue / building coverage hire systems)

Analogue way was sadly an unsupported unit even prior to its release - It was built from a concept that was out sourced and so on release updates were not possible and I think just brought to market to add to a line up , it 'worked' but glitchy unstable and did not advance - So much outlay to get these to market at the time.

TV One have a UK and USA base, Lucky for me at the time one of the hardware system designers had a Nissan 300ZX , I also had one heavily modified so a great talking point.
TV one then needed a SDI HD source - I had the first SDI HD DVD player (Yes kids, that's a real format that did exist!) so I lent them mine.
My background is 30+ years in Pro AV so I knew or used these products prior to my own system

TV One were then going to help with a custom firmware for my blend.
If you use the TV one blend with CRT it is possible to see 'steps' per colour (RGB) in a test image within the roll off area.
If my memory is correct this used an 8 bit step so the 'bit depth' when used with CRT projection could do with more bit depth / data.
In actual use this step was not visible.
It was agreed that a custom 'LUT' look up table could be produced for my system, The engineer then moved company and so that custom work did not happen.
That would be around 10 years ago.

I have a hubble colourimeter NIST calibrated at the time - kit like that essential to blend

I started with a TVONE 7200 I think - 7000 series with SDI input, Then I got a deal on 2000 series TV One units - The 7000 was dual ch, the 2000 were 1ch so you used a pair. I have not tried any recent units.

You really need a Blu Ray player with THREE HDMI outs one for each blend unit and one for audio for the cleanest starting path. I only ever found a twin HDMI out so went HDMI to the blend and analogue to audio pre

Image - well without question I am lucky to have seen it and so did a few others that visited, Without question nothing has ever come close, the room is total blackout - That is a real issue for the human brain, in a total black room you loose perception of distance and the brain really can't deal with that.
But with an image running and zero external light and every surface built as non reflective, screen specific for blending to reduce / eliminate colour (Color!) shift then the most incredible image is seen.

Like it or not HD DVD always had a higher quality image than Blu Ray - Please respect my opinion on that, Many did not believe until they viewed my system and then it was obvious, at this point the system showed blu ray defects.

What was stunning about the image was that without question it was three dimensional on the screen, the image whilst flat had a depth that was breathtaking and noticed by all that viewed. I believe this was helped by the 8 foot wide screen and so the contrast ratio was massive.

Lots of things need to come together to create the perfect blend

I will one day power the system up again,
I could do with adding a few 909 spares to my stock just to have rather than needed

Thank you for reading,
Nidi - I'm going back into hibernation as I need my beauty sleep
Andy.



Okay finally someone who has actually built a blend with Barco gear.

So a TVone 7100 is a good blender?

You say you can't see the stepped gamma in the blend Zone. Nash was unhappy when the used TVone processors for his blend for this very reason. Is he being too hard.

Nash spent HOURS working that blend and having seen it on multiple occasions (and helping with set up) the blend zone was still quite evident. I think the only way to get rid of the gamma issues is with a Spyder. There are more people who would blend if capable processors were affordable..

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Tim in Phoenix



Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4235
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys

Nice to hear from Andy again. I am not in agreement that Analog Way had problems---I've used the DVX8022 for twelve years now and there have been firmware updates and, in my case, no performance problems---just stunning OMG punchy imagery. The 8022, which was $16,500 at introduction (I'm a dealer) was replaced with the NexTage series about six years ago, and now 8022s can be found used at very attractive prices, and I'll support my friends here technically any way I can.

I looked at TV One when the 8022 was discontinued; blending seemed added as an afterthought; the setup looked very tricky and, I remember Nash saying that the alpha curve (rolloff of the right side of the left half and the left side of the right half, in the center of the screen) was not a curve at all but stepped, and that would make hiding the blend zone difficult to impossible.



The overlap is handled perfectly in the 8022 as you would expect from broadcast-quality equipment. With the built-in test patterns and a Video Essentials BluRay disc and some patience, excellence is very attainable without an ISF diploma.
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jbmeyer13



Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1131



PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim in Phoenix wrote:
Guys

Nice to hear from Andy again. I am not in agreement that Analog Way had problems---I've used the DVX8022 for twelve years now and there have been firmware updates and, in my case, no performance problems---just stunning OMG punchy imagery. The 8022, which was $16,500 at introduction (I'm a dealer) was replaced with the NexTage series about six years ago, and now 8022s can be found used at very attractive prices, and I'll support my friends here technically any way I can.

I looked at TV One when the 8022 was discontinued; blending seemed added as an afterthought; the setup looked very tricky and, I remember Nash saying that the alpha curve (rolloff of the right side of the left half and the left side of the right half, in the center of the screen) was not a curve at all but stepped, and that would make hiding the blend zone difficult to impossible.



The overlap is handled perfectly in the 8022 as you would expect from broadcast-quality equipment. With the built-in test patterns and a Video Essentials BluRay disc and some patience, excellence is very attainable without an ISF diploma.



I would suggest anyone considering this take a flight to Phoenix and check out Timís set up. Tim, IIRC you donít use a Lumagen or any other processor to adjust porch timings or CMS. Does the 8022 allow you to alter porch timings to shift the raster ringing out of the image?
Looks like the 8022 will only accept 60hz input but it will output 1080p/72. Have you tried 72hz on yours?

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Projector: Modded 9501LC ULtra- MP VIM, Vold VNB, ETECH LVPS, Silver VIM Cables, HD10F's & a V1 case!
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