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Analog Way Di-Ventix vs. Di-Ventix II

 
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject: Analog Way Di-Ventix vs. Di-Ventix II Reply with quote


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Any difference between those in edge blending ?


thanks

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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys

I probably have more experience with edge blending than anyone else here

<salesy/self-promotion links and comments removed>

The Di-Ventix II (aka DVX8044) was developed to offer more/better special effects for broadcasters. It also switches stereo audio that follows the analog video inputs, but has only one DVI-D digital in, so not likely anyone here would care about audio switching in the 8044. The 8044 was $7500 higher MSRP ($24,000 vs $16,500) and has no advantages for our application. Recommend you switch video sources with a Moome MUX (4 HDMI in with stripping)

The DVX may be controlled by its front panel or by a Windows PC with RS232 (Win98 or XP), which is much easier. Compatible input signals include composite, S, component, RGB 3, 4 or 5 wire, DVI-D or HDMI with appropriate cables and/or HDCP stripper. The signal type for each of the eight inputs is user-selectable. A ninth input which is DVI-D can be assigned to any of the eight input buttons.

In home use, one can Edge-Blend across two nine inch CRT projectors like I use, or one could run single projectors in two different rooms with switching, transcoding and scaling all easily selected. For more information on home theater edge-blending just search "BlendZilla" to learn more about a world-class system on a ten foot screen in your living room. Unit is tested in Matrix Switcher and Soft Edge Blending modes and is believed to be fully functional, with a few lid scuffs.

<salesy/self-promotion links and comments removed>

Specifications here: http://www.analogway.com/files/uploads/produit/download/en/dvx8022-diventix-mixers-seamless-switchers-technical-datasheet.pdf

<salesy/self-promotion links and comments removed>


Last edited by Tim in Phoenix on Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<salesy/self-promotion links and comments removed>
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim,

what resolution have you configured ?

1920 x 1080p into the Di-Ventix and 1280 x 1024 out to each ?



cheers
ElTopo

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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's right.

To go to the next level in edge blending you would need Analog's NexTage processor, starts around $18,500
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.

Next level means what ?

Does the Di-Ventix do 72Hz ?

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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next level means an appreciably better picture than Di-Ventix.

60hz is smooth on Di-Ventix so not sure 72hz is needed.

http://www.analogway.com/files/uploads/produit/download/en/dvx8022-diventix-mixers-seamless-switchers-technical-datasheet.pdf
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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys

He bought a DVX (not mine) so this should be exciting!
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the Di-Ventix II 8044 got a fan ?

I cannot see any on the rear.

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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I gathered both the Di-Ventix and Di-ventix II are severely limited in pixel clock capability: DVX about 100MHz, DVX II about 148MHz.
In my opinion if someone takes the effort to setup a blend he should do that to reach the ultimate performance.
The DVX unit hardly can do pixel perfect blending, nor can output 72Hz, so that questions the viability of the whole process then...
A well setup Marquee can do 1080P 72Hz quite well, so adding two as a stack would be simplier yet more "accurate" setup even on big screens.

As far as blending units go: check out the Christie Spyder, it runs circles around any Di-Ventix.

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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh?

Stacking? Seriously? Oh, lets use 75 percent of the phosphor, not all of it..........and create a nightmare of convergence......


Tell us gjaky how much experience you have with Christie Spyder eh? Their office is in Phoenix and I am a former Christie dealer. Yes it is maybe ten percent better images, we auditioned one here four years ago. My theater. Good luck finding one for less than list price, $30,000 (?), they did not build very many.

How much experience do you have with any kind of blend system eh? I set up blend systems in Detroit for the car companies since 1995. GM, EDS and Silicon Graphics. And Los Alamos Labs around 2002

And in my home theater in Scottsdale since 2005. And using it since.

I brought the blend technology to this forum then. Curt Palme has visited twice, ask him. Yes really .

You wish you had a blend system half as good as an 8022 LOLOLOL Or any blend system at all.

Go home and shut up..........fool


E-Tech Systems Phoenix
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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys.......

As I write this, it is 5 am in Budapest. Mr gjaky will be spitting up his coffee soon LOL
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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim in Phoenix wrote:
Huh?

Stacking? Seriously? Oh, lets use 75 percent of the phosphor, not all of it..........and create a nightmare of convergence......


Tell us gjaky how much experience you have with Christie Spyder eh? Their office is in Phoenix and I am a former Christie dealer. Yes it is maybe ten percent better images, we auditioned one here four years ago. My theater. Good luck finding one for less than list price, $30,000 (?), they did not build very many.

How much experience do you have with any kind of blend system eh? I set up blend systems in Detroit for the car companies since 1995. GM, EDS and Silicon Graphics. And Los Alamos Labs around 2002

And in my home theater in Scottsdale since 2005. And using it since.

I brought the blend technology to this forum then. Curt Palme has visited twice, ask him. Yes really .

You wish you had a blend system half as good as an 8022 LOLOLOL Or any blend system at all.

Go home and shut up..........fool


E-Tech Systems Phoenix


...The Very typical response from Tim in Phoenix...

[hint] For the dear readers of this forum who are not already aware: Tim is financially interested in selling DVX units. [/hint]

With all the effort you put into my personal insultation you should have proven that my claims are false, instead... Wink

My point is that when someone talks about blending that should be for good... If we consider ourselves as videophiles -someone who is obsessed with the perfection in video reproduction- we should stick to the accurate reproduction of the source material, this is where the DVX fails the most.

You are right that I don't have a blend, but the real difference between our setup is that my single projector can resolve 1:1 pixel structure of 1080P material at 72Hz output refresh rate (while utilizing 75% of the tube), while your blend setup can't do this even at 60Hz (while supposedly utilizing 100% of the CRT tubes). And the reason for this is lying right in your DVX unit. But feel free to post a picture of a well resolved SMPTE pattern on your blend, only then I stand corrected.
My comment in stacking goes as far that you can make a stack for the price of a VGA (or HDMI) splitter (assuming you have the two CRTs at hand), while not having the strong limitations the DVX have.

FYI Christie Spyder Factory B-stock USD 7500

IIRC the Christie Spyder is still an active product, while the DVX units have been long obsolete, hence the price difference.

BTW how do you define 10% picture improvement, in what way? Greg Eisemann used to make up such claims (eg. 300% sharper... LOL)

Quote:
As I write this, it is 5 am in Budapest. Mr gjaky will be spitting up his coffee soon LOL


Thank you for your worrying, but I don't drink coffee Wink

So long...

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projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim in Phoenix wrote:
Huh?
Stacking? Seriously?
Tell us gjaky how much experience you have with Christie Spyder eh?
How much experience do you have with any kind of blend system eh?
You wish you had a blend system half as good as an 8022 LOLOLOL Or any blend system at all.
Go home and shut up..........fool

Tim, that is completely uncalled for. Please refrain from name calling and personal attacks. It's against the forum rules.

Please read the rules here: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5

Please also don't turn every blending/stacking thread into a sales ad for your products as you've done here as that's also against the forum rules. I know this is an old thread (2018) but the original poster asks what the difference is between two versions of a product and the first words in your immediate response were how much you know about blending and links to your products for sale on ebay.

I've now gone back and removed all your salesy/self-promotion links and comments from some of your posts. You're in the CRT PROJECTORS sub-forum here that serves as general discussion forum for all things CRT projector related. Don't turn every thread into "buy something from Tim". If you want to promote/sell your products, please ONLY do so in the BUY/SELL sub-forum.

Kal

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mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2022 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm familiar with both The Spyder and the first version Di-Ventix.

I have more experience with the Spyder and would say it would not be the right or best product for two projector home theater blending. It is far more complicated than the D-ventix, and would require some training and experience to even get it to work. Very unlike the Di-ventix where you'll be able to figure things out as you go.

The Spyder was more designed for multiple projectors, something like four or more. And it will allow top and bottom blending as well, so you could do a triple stack cube. Most of my setups were walls or and no more than and four projector side by side blend.

It has crazy blend features and yes is does do 72hz vertical, but for HT blending that's not that important because the blend processor sets the 1920X1080 image inside of the overall projected image. And that's when you find out what they allow image blanking. So in blending your native image is projected into the overall image. The Di-vintix 2 I'm not at all familiar with, but do recall that it also has a 72hz vertical, but again, when blending things are very different than a single setup.

The Spyder has a ton of tweaking capabilities, it seems to have been designed as an ultimate blend solution, but for a newbie expect to spend a couple of days familiarizing yourself the unit. Plus its huge and noisy.


One of my site was a four projector rear room onto an 40 foot wide glass screen. I think it was 40X10 because most of my setups were 10 foot screens.

Stay away from the Spyder for HT use. It's huge, ugly and noisy. And you have to get them configured for the amount of outputs you want. So if see one on ebay, keep in mind it could be a three output or any number above that. I doubt you'll find one with only two outputs.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we're going to keep flinging stones (no offence to you Mike), I would say that anyone looking to get into a big picture in a Home Theater is far better off getting a digital that supports the screen size they're looking after instead of trying to stack or blend 2+ CRT projectors with a special video processor. That was an option way back when only because it was the only option available. That ship sailed ~15 years ago or more.

Nowadays with digitals with great black levels, full HDR and Rec.2020 (things CRT can't do well or at all), why would you ever consider CRT for a large screen that requires multiple units plus a blending processor? That makes zero sense and explains why they are no longer sold.

If you're a hobbyist who likes to tinker and maybe already has 2+ CRT projectors and can buy a blending unit dirt cheap, by all means have at it and have fun, but otherwise it doesn't make any sense for someone new to HT. I'm all for retro electronics and having fun.

If one of my friends new to home theater said they wanted a 10-14 foot wide screen, I'd have to have rocks in my head to suggest that their best option is a multiple CRT projector with a specialized video processor/blender.

Kal

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mp20748




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PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in 100% agreement Kal. I was trying hard to respect that someone had the right to tinker, though its been a real struggle to not just come out and say what I really think about the idea to want to blend CRT's these days.

The guy I worked with before for over 15 years for a company here in the states, was a former Electrohome engineer that both Tim and I knew. He was the head of Electrohome's Service Department. I had known of him but had never met him. Tim turned me onto him over 20 years ago and they bought me on board initially to repair the boards for the Barco 909, to later get me more involved in other things. His name was Cliff, he's Canadian and still lives in Canada. Christie Digital bought Electrohome to convert it to Digital Technology, and after the sale and sometimes later, most of the CRT die-hards at Christie ended up at another Canadian operation known as FAKESPACE (virtual reality/stereoscopics/3D). Fakespace was later purchased by Mechdyne, and the former Electrohome Engineer (Cliff) that worked for Electrohome/Christie Digital/Fakespace also became the Service Manager for Mechdyne.

This guy Cliff was a great person to work for. Very smart guy and was wise concerning a lot of things. And with his deep and first hand knowledge of the Marquee and its design, he was adamant to make sense out of moving on from CRT. At that time we had a bunch of CUBE (Virtual Reality or Immersive Technology) setups on the east coast that I maintained and because of our relationship and what I had been learning from him, I was the guy convincing the customer that it was time to move on from the technology. At that time they also had a bunch of Christie Digital large DLP projectors that had already replaced CRT. Being where me and Cliff was, it was clear that CRT technology had seen its days and I had gotten so that I hated to adjust them. Man, I would arrive at a sight that had all these CRT projectors in various multi-screen setups on a Monday morning from an Sunday flight or derive into some location and would be there that entire week tuning and tweaking those projectors. After the first night, I started dreading the work, and that is when it became difficult for me to do anything beyond converging my own projector. Cliff was feeling the same way and on some of the jobs where he came done from Canada to join me,you could see the dread on our faces when we arrived at the job site. So I can understand someone still wanted a CRT projector, but the thought of anything multi-CRT to me is beyond comprehension.

I still have a CRT on my ceiling downstairs that I knew years ago that I would most likely never put the covers back on it, because I had burnt out on being able to tweak another CRT and that is why I had started telling my customers it's time to move on if you are expecting me to continue to put my hands on their projector. I have this big thing hanging on my ceiling on the lower lever, that I fear one day having to fire it up again. And to not scare off anyone wanting to stick with or make an hobby out or CRT, which I think would be a great hobby, but for anyone that's not able to DIY a CRT, it's not a good idea to own one.

If you are considering Blending CRT's I would say it would only make sense if its something you would want to tinker or experiment with. But for the sake of Blending CRT's for the image, as kal mentioned and I'll add that you could never make any sense out of doing so. You could simply go to your local media store and purchase nearly any Digital Projector in there and it will projector an even better image that will be much brighter, and you would not have to deal with that dreaded blend-zone.

Cliff and I met up on sites where we had to setup or tweaks a bunch of Cubes and Walls and other rooms that have projectors in them, there were days when I would be at a location for over a month. And the sad things was, it was not strange that the customer found us dosing with a remote in our hand.
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