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Sony G90 corner convergence issue
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Apfelmousse wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
The DA board only generates waveforms which I recall are common for all three tubes. Each tube then has s separate channel for geometry and convergence.

This "separate channel" for convergence (and also for keystone etc.) has controls, and zones. So I figure this should correspond to some real hardware somewhere for each colour.

Well, I might have a closer look in the service manual. Maybe its omitted in the "theory of operation"?

cheers
Martin

Well it's just all three colors need the same wave form so they don't need to make the same one three separate times. Each channel picks up the reference wave form and then uses it.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
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Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
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*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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Apfelmousse




Joined: 26 Apr 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Germany


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
Well it's just all three colors need the same wave form so they don't need to make the same one three separate times. Each channel picks up the reference wave form and then uses it.

I think I understand what you mean. Nevertheless, if I remember right from my first experiments, I can adjust Size, Position, Keystone, Pincushion and Zone control (Convergence) for each colour individually.

So my train of thought is there should be some circuitry for vertical and horizontal control that is exclusive for each colour, red, green and blue!

cheers
Martin
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apfelmousse wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
Well it's just all three colors need the same wave form so they don't need to make the same one three separate times. Each channel picks up the reference wave form and then uses it.

I think I understand what you mean. Nevertheless, if I remember right from my first experiments, I can adjust Size, Position, Keystone, Pincushion and Zone control (Convergence) for each colour individually.

So my train of thought is there should be some circuitry for vertical and horizontal control that is exclusive for each colour, red, green and blue!

cheers
Martin

That is correct. There is separate circuitry for all three channels.

But they do all share the same reference waveforms which are simply distributed to all thee tubes.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Apfelmousse




Joined: 26 Apr 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Germany


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

the new Dallas chip (with 70ns instead of 120ns access time) has been loaded with the data from the old one, inserted on the YA Board, inserted in the G90, and it works without problems.

These USB Eprom-Programmers make this a childs play: start software on PC, switch on programmer, select chip, insert old chip, hit "read", insert new chip, hit "write", done...

Thanks for all your help on that one!

cheers
Martin
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Apfelmousse




Joined: 26 Apr 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Germany


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a look at the notes I took during the setup of my Barco 808. Actually everything went well, but at the end I finished with two oddities:
    - red and blue lens were not aligned with the exact same angle (mechanically). I tried to correct this, but with the same angles I ran into other problems. I checked installation geometry (beamer / screen positioning), but could not find anything wrong.

    - I did the setup using the internal patterns, synchronized to the input. But once finished, selecting the scaler's test patterns I got very different picture sizes (with 1080p).

Should I setup geometry on the G90 with internal or external patterns?

regards
Martin
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apfelmousse wrote:
Hi all,

the new Dallas chip (with 70ns instead of 120ns access time) has been loaded with the data from the old one, inserted on the YA Board, inserted in the G90, and it works without problems.

These USB Eprom-Programmers make this a childs play: start software on PC, switch on programmer, select chip, insert old chip, hit "read", insert new chip, hit "write", done...

Thanks for all your help on that one!

cheers
Martin

Child's play until you have a situation where reading the Dallas chip causes it to lose all date... that's fun, it's happened to me Confused

Glad it went well for you though!

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
Back to top
CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apfelmousse wrote:
I had a look at the notes I took during the setup of my Barco 808. Actually everything went well, but at the end I finished with two oddities:
    - red and blue lens were not aligned with the exact same angle (mechanically). I tried to correct this, but with the same angles I ran into other problems. I checked installation geometry (beamer / screen positioning), but could not find anything wrong.

    - I did the setup using the internal patterns, synchronized to the input. But once finished, selecting the scaler's test patterns I got very different picture sizes (with 1080p).

Should I setup geometry on the G90 with internal or external patterns?

regards
Martin

Yes, always use external patterns. I usually use 1080p 60 for the reference pattern (hold SAVE for many seconds) and I save it to memory 13. Then add any other resolutions or scan rates you want and they will be added to memory 14, 15, 16...

When you set up any CRT most people think they should align the centers first. The better way to do it is to apply your source and put up a white field or overscan pattern. Turn contrast down to like 10 and make sure linearity is at neutral 128. Then look directly into the tube; adjust width and center to make the raster fill the tube face with the edges of the image centered horizontally and near the edges of the tubes on their widest side (bottom if ceiling mounted). Mechanically move your lenses and later use center and linearity and you know for sure that you are maximizing phosphor usage.

Did that make sense?

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
Back to top
Apfelmousse




Joined: 26 Apr 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Germany


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
Did that make sense?craigr

Extremely! Very Happy

With all your info I'll do a new alignment with the G90 still sitting on its table, below the designated ceiling position (occupied by the 808). I'll align colour balance as well. I got a colorimeter, but thats an older, standalone modell that does not connect to a PC. I will update this thread or start a new one when I get into it.

Is there a tips-and-tricks somewhere about how to mount a G90 to the ceiling? I'll have to put the monster on its back to fix the mounting structure to the housing prior to lifting it to the ceiling. Given the sheer weight of it, I fear that could break the housing, even if I put it on a heap of pillows.

cheers
Martin
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apfelmousse wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
Did that make sense?craigr

Extremely! Very Happy

With all your info I'll do a new alignment with the G90 still sitting on its table, below the designated ceiling position (occupied by the 808). I'll align colour balance as well. I got a colorimeter, but thats an older, standalone modell that does not connect to a PC. I will update this thread or start a new one when I get into it.

Is there a tips-and-tricks somewhere about how to mount a G90 to the ceiling? I'll have to put the monster on its back to fix the mounting structure to the housing prior to lifting it to the ceiling. Given the sheer weight of it, I fear that could break the housing, even if I put it on a heap of pillows.

cheers
Martin

Well take off the decorative cover (the big grey case) and also remove the lenses. That will decrease the weight by 60lbs. No problem rolling it on its back.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
Back to top
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