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5.1 wierdness??

 
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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 11376
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:26 am    Post subject: 5.1 wierdness?? Reply with quote


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I have a bizarre sound problem...

I bought a new BR player for the HT. Nothing fancy, just a Samsung BD-J5700 on sale at Best Buy. My receiver is an Onkyo HTR-510 **without** HDMI, so I have to use digital coax or optical audio. Hooked it all up, everything looked great, but I didn't think I was getting proper surround sound. So I dug out my old Avia calibration disk and played the Channel Identification track.

I tested it with 3 different BR players:
New Samsung with coax digital audio
Older Samsung with digital optical audio
Ooold cheapie Magnavox with coax digital audio
(I was going to try my ancient Momitsu DVD player, but it only had DVI video out and I can't play that any more. Laughing)

Sure enough, both Samsungs (so both coax and optical) showed the same behavior: L & R Surround both played out of the R Surround speaker. Also there was no rumble when it identified the LFE channel.

But the Magnavox was different. Instead of L Surround playing in the R Surround speaker, it didn't play at ALL. And the LFE channel rumbled like it was supposed to.

WTF??

I am 99.9% sure that my receiver and speaker wiring are OK -- I'm certain I checked the speakers when I got the Avia disk (and since) and I haven't changed my receiver or anything since then. And the fact that different players / audio modes act differently suggests that the problem is not in my wiring.

The Samsungs were set to PCM out. With some experimentation I discovered they acted like the Magnavox if I set them to Bitstream. I've never understood all the audio encodings so I don't know what I SHOULD be running. The new BR player supports PCM, Bitstream, and Bitstream re-encoded to dts and DolbyD. (See p. 13 of manual, below.) The receiver supports a bunch of "Listening Modes" to decode the various audio formats. (P. 34 of the manual, below.) I experimented with every combination I could think of, and the major differences, other than what I described above, was that the "Neo" formats mashed both surround channels into the rear center. Nothing else puts anything into rear-center at all, at least for the Avia disk.

So for now I have the new BR player set to Bitstream. No L Surround, but at least the L Surround sound isn't coming out of the wrong speaker, and the LFE works.

Any guesses how I might troubleshoot this??

BR player manual: http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/201501/20150108162139952/02527A_BD_J5700_ZA_1226.pdf
Receiver manual: http://filedepot.onkyousa.com/Files/own_manuals/HT-R510.pdf
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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 11376
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gack. Nevermind...

I was so sure my wiring was OK that I didn't try the obvious test. I just swapped the L & R rears, and the problem moved... I found I had a loose connection on the L Rear speaker. Embarassed

I would still welcome some insights on which of these various encodings and listening modes make sense, if anybody feels so inclined... For now I've got the player on Bitstream. PCM combines the L & R surround (which was why both came out of the R Surr when the L Surr channel was dead) and loses the LFE.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26030
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Set your Player to Bitstream re-encoded to dts. Your receiver should handle that one.
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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 11376
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, but I didn't notice any difference between Bitstream and Bitstream/dts... I tried all the options in the receiver and they all seemed to be the same.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What disk are you trying to play?
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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 11376
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm, good question. When I was comparing the different nodes, I was just using the channel-identifier tracks on Avia. That might not give a good indication of what I'd hear on an actual movie soundtrack. I'll have to see if any movies I play sound any different on them. And whether movies end up producing any content in the rear channel. The Avia disk didn't, but it was targeted at 5.1. I wonder if sending Bitstream/dts will send 6.1 DTS-ES content with a rear channel?
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AnalogRocks
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
Hm, good question. When I was comparing the different nodes, I was just using the channel-identifier tracks on Avia. That might not give a good indication of what I'd hear on an actual movie soundtrack. I'll have to see if any movies I play sound any different on them. And whether movies end up producing any content in the rear channel. The Avia disk didn't, but it was targeted at 5.1. I wonder if sending Bitstream/dts will send 6.1 DTS-ES content with a rear channel?


According to what I just read your receiver should see DTS core from a bluray.

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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 11376
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's nice. What does that mean?? Laughing

Does it mean the receiver should see a discrete rear channel in the signal, or synthesize one, or ...?

It looks like DTS-ES is outdated now. All the discs I looked at had DTS-HD or DolbyHD and similar. No idea how my older receiver is going to decode those newer formats.

I may have to bite the bullet and spring for a new receiver one of these days. I mean, mine is only 12-13 years old...
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26030
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
That's nice. What does that mean?? Laughing

Does it mean the receiver should see a discrete rear channel in the signal, or synthesize one, or ...?

It looks like DTS-ES is outdated now. All the discs I looked at had DTS-HD or DolbyHD and similar. No idea how my older receiver is going to decode those newer formats.

I may have to bite the bullet and spring for a new receiver one of these days. I mean, mine is only 12-13 years old...


DTS-HD and DolbyHD are HDMI only. However, your new Bluray player translates these to the older DTS core 5.1 over the Coaxial/spdif output.

So, you should have a good 5.1 with the LFE channel and discrete rear channels when you play back a movie.

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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 11376
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I'll pay attention when I get a chance to watch a movie. Thanks much for all the advice, Jeremy!
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26030
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
OK, I'll pay attention when I get a chance to watch a movie. Thanks much for all the advice, Jeremy!


See my I'll spent youth WAS good for something. Happy to help.

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