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THE MOD
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gregstv



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 624
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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mp20748 wrote:
That's not roll-off, that's normal when using a Multiburst pattern @ 1080P.


When doing multiburst at that bandwidth, its best to go dual probe/display (before/after). Showing them both at the same time one above the other.


Hey Mike, can you explain what we are looking at if it's not roll off please.
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2626
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregstv wrote:

Hey Mike, can you explain what we are looking at if it's not roll off please.


I don't think we have to open a debate here whether it is roll-off or not, the point is the VNB-DB have much better bandwidth than the stock boards, and this point is well made. So let's leave at that Thumbs Up

_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB
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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5358
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregstv wrote:
mp20748 wrote:
That's not roll-off, that's normal when using a Multiburst pattern @ 1080P.


When doing multiburst at that bandwidth, its best to go dual probe/display (before/after). Showing them both at the same time one above the other.


Hey Mike, can you explain what we are looking at if it's not roll off please.



Well, if the pattern is a true 1920X1080P multiburst, then that could be roll-off , but multiburst patters are usually NTSC and used for Waveform Monitors, for the purpose of showing FLATNESS Response. Back when I was using a multiburst pattern myself, I was told there were no 1920X1080P multiburst patterns. Now that one may be a true resolution multiburst pattern, but what the scope shows is what I was so used to seeing.

If a true 1920X1080P pattern, then the Flatness requirement would be the rule to determine the response of the video chain. Meaning the scope pattern should have all five burst groups equal in amplitude. That would mean the last group would be the same vertical structure as the top left of the SMPTE pattern.

My industrial pattern generator has for its resolution patterns several that's either SMPTE or very similar using small groups of both vert/horiz line groups. One has the same as the center small group of vert/horiz lines as you see in the center of the SMPTE. and it also has the four outer edge same patter group in each corner. Another has a very similar but only the top two line groups in the smpte on opposite ends with two other squares.

None of my commercial pattern generators have a multiburst pattern in them. I asked Scott @ VDC about this years ago, and he told me the best way to look at bandwidth was on the screen. Of course using the generator to evaluate bandwidth using the scope is important, but the SMPTE would be the final rule.

I could be wrong about this, but every multiburst pattern I've seen that lived up to the what the pattern says you should expect for final results, the scope showed over-shoot. As well, the SMPTE showed peaking on the top left pattern.


Look at the 1080P multiburst pattern in this link (third down)

http://www.video-storm.com/testdata/csw62_test_data.htm



And here he shows what I believe is the signal being tested right from the generator itself, it as well is showing the last burst group with a lower amplitude:

gjaky wrote:
I decided to post some information on stock VIM boards I have here.
The goal here is to demonstrate their bandwidth that actually reach the VNB.
About the measurement rig: The source is my trusty old Asus GeForce 6600GT videocard in an appropriate computer, The card was set to output 1080P 72Hz, the test signal is a multiburst signal with 4, 3, 2, 1 on:off pixel sequence on gray background.
First the output of the videocard was measured after 3m of conventional d-sub to RGBHV cable, fisrst I tested how this signal looks on my oscilloscope:





Also look at Craig's multiburst testing here:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/16-crt-projectors/1276124-barco-1080p-72hz.html
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gregstv



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 624
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mike,
Can you tell us what the drop in amplitude between the input and the output of the VIM represents?
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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5358
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregstv wrote:
Thanks Mike,
Can you tell us what the drop in amplitude between the input and the output of the VIM represents?


That I couldn't answer, because it's not my work. Plus he's a lot better at describing things like that.
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2626
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modded VIM for the support signals.


_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB
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koldby



Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Denmark

TV/Projector: GJAKY modded VDC marquee 9500lc ultra


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks very nice indeed!
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What is home theater without good sound?
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2626
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... Something is going on.
The ULTIMATE VNB-DB featuring the AD834 multiplier on a black 4 layer gold plated PCB, and gold MCX RF connectors and so on, planned to be a limited edition only 3 sets to be produced of which one will be available on the market.



ULTIMATE_VNB-DB.jpg
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ULTIMATE_VNB-DB.jpg



_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2626
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the PCBs are under manufacturing. It seems that the one available set is already found its owner... However, as I am going to make the adapter for Barco projectors as well, so I decided to make just one other set reserved for Barco owners, just for fairness...
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB
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greg9518lc



Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360



PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like the progress looks very promising. Look forward to the field tests.
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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want one of those gold boards. I would like a remake of all video boards with gold traces Very Happy
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701s->runco933->8500ultra->hd1->hd350->vw100->cinemax+919sp+3x919+9500mp->cinemax+919sp(modded)+kuro600a
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cmjohnson



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you sell just the bare boards with parts lists? Or sell the files to make the bare boards, with the parts list?

I would be interested in that, either way.

Leave the rest to those of us who can do the assembly.
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2626
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmjohnson wrote:
Would you sell just the bare boards with parts lists? Or sell the files to make the bare boards, with the parts list?

I would be interested in that, either way.

Leave the rest to those of us who can do the assembly.


Yes, I can sell a set of bare PCB for the AD835 VNB-DB and the VIM AUX, with instructions and parts lists for everything at 60 USD + shippping (weight under 100g).
The ULTIMATE VNB-DB is (was) a one time only offer with no DIY option.

_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB
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racerxnet



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 362
Location: Illinois


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be great to see ANY of your mods in use from another buyer. That would motivate more sales. I also don't get the low volume of (3) PCB boards made? If you offer 3 boards, 2 are spoken for, and have 1 left over, I am not beating on your door for a shot at purchasing them. Still waiting to see them in ACTION! Very Happy

MAK
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cmjohnson



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just bought a set of bare boards and will build them myself. Fortunately I'm quite good with surface mount component soldering.

Looking forward to seeing what this does for my picture.
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2626
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently there are two sets of working boards out there, I also hope to see some feedback soon.
Whether it will be verbal only or with screen shots I don’t know, but I don’t think screenshots will save the day, as one hardly can distingush two screenshot made with a 7” machine and 9” machine depending on the circumstances, not to mention mods, therefore I emphasized the technical aspects of my work.

As for the limited edition boards. It was prooved earlier that even the AD835 version can handle 1080P 72Hz without practical loss in bandwidth. The golden version with AD834 was offered for those who need more than „enough”. For that of course premium features (like limited number production) had to be added, just like with a Lamborghini: it is not enough to go fast, it has to look good too, but that comes with a price tag with which not everyone is comfortable ...
The AD834 version board is rather expensive to produce, because of the high parts cost, so even for me it was better to invest in just as many parts what I can surely sell. Four boards: one for me (why would I close out myself? Smile) then there is the master of the project, who showed the earliest interest having such a board (everyone can guess who could that be..), and originally I planned one set only for open offer (which is now also sold), but later I also realized that since I want to make the adoption of this mod for Barco 909, it is not „fair” to sell out all AD834 boards before the Barco adoption could come true, so I reserve one more ULTIMATE board for Barco owners (there is serious interest on this as well), and if something is missing from the 909 it is surely the bandwidth....

Also I’m not doing this for living, I don’t have dreams to spread the market with hundreds of units sold, What I do, I do from my free time (what I don’t have much anyway) and mostly for personal interest, but it is also nice to see if my work worth the efforts: both mentally (it is good to see that people are interested in what I do) and financially (so I am not throwing out money on the window...)

_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2626
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One step further again Smile


_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB
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racerxnet



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 362
Location: Illinois


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The board looks great.

MAK
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2626
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks MAK, in the end I got a total of 16pcs PCBs, that would be enough for 5 total sets + 1 spare.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2626
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just finished with the assembly of the first ULTIMATE VNB-DB, the tests start soon.


Ultimate_small.jpg
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Assembled Ultimate VNB-DB
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Ultimate_small.jpg



_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB


Last edited by gjaky on Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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