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nidi
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 299 Location: Switzerland
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:35 pm Post subject: Radiance with 2160i for CRT , who's interested? |
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A german Lumagen distributor asked Jim Peterson about adding a 2160i option to the newer
Radiance processors.
Would anyone be interested in such an option?
If enough of us ask for it, it may be done.
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Interested? Yes. Likely able to afford it? Probably not in my case.
I would say that there is certainly interest in a processor that can take 4K UHD inputs and downres them to
resolutions that are below 4K and above 1080p. Say, "3K" or "2.75K", etc.
The best CRT projectors are good for something beyond 1080p. While the technical challenges required to make a CRT projector
actually resolve full 4K are immense, and that particular goal will never be achieved, I think 3K is within the realm of possibility.
So, my request is for multiple variable resolutions between 1080P and 4K. Perhaps even user definable, if the unit has enough processing power to handle that.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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cmjohnson wrote: | Interested? Yes. Likely able to afford it? Probably not in my case.
I would say that there is certainly interest in a processor that can take 4K UHD inputs and downres them to
resolutions that are below 4K and above 1080p. Say, "3K" or "2.75K", etc.
The best CRT projectors are good for something beyond 1080p. While the technical challenges required to make a CRT projector
actually resolve full 4K are immense, and that particular goal will never be achieved, I think 3K is within the realm of possibility.
So, my request is for multiple variable resolutions between 1080P and 4K. Perhaps even user definable, if the unit has enough processing power to handle that. |
The Radiance can do all that now Chris, but only in progressive mode. Fully customizable mode parameters have been possible with all the Lumagen VP's since way back. They key would be interlaced. I will also ask Jim (and Patrick) if they would be willing to work on this. Pat is the software engineer so it's more in his court in a sense.
I think a CRT could probably do 4ki if well set up and that's what I'm after. I just wish we could reach DCIP3, but that probably won't happen. Even if we can filter and make the colors (that is even unknown) the projector will have much less light output.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
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Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
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*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016 Posts: 360
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Whats the point in higher resolution when nobody is fully capable of resolving 1080P at a decent flicker free framerate like 60 or 72hz. The lens resolution is maxed out with 1080P, so even if we had a projector capable of resolving a 300Mhz pixel clock it would neve be resolved effectively on the tube and thru the lens... So whats the point for this resolution?? Just trying to understand....
_________________ VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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Just because a projector can't fully resolve a signal doesn't mean that it can't resolve a good portion of the signal. Most of what we watch does not have hard edges of full black against full white (think SMTPE 1:1 pattern) so 99% of the time fully resolving a signal is a moot point because it's not called for by real world video. I'm afraid Kurt is rather hung up on "fully resolving" analog video which is simply impossible. So I think you may be hearing somewhat fallacious ideologies from that direction. That said, the more bandwidth a projector is capable of the the better because it will always stay closer to resolving fully real world images.
In my experimentation I would really like to try 4ki @ 48Hz and go from there. See how it looks and adjust accordingly. When you come down to it, 4ki @ 48Hz isn't an impossible bandwidth.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
Last edited by CIR Engineering on Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1607
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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That would be very interesting.
_________________ Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016 Posts: 360
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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So what converter you all recommend for a 250 mhz pixel clock?
_________________ VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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greg9518lc wrote: | So what converter you all recommend for a 250 mhz pixel clock? |
What do you mean by converter?
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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Not exactly true, Greg. Assuming you're maximizing phosphor usage with a 16:9 raster, you can get about 4" of image height on the CRT face. Which is, for all intents and purposes, 100 millimeters.
All the better lenses are rated to resolve 12 line PAIRS per millimeter, multiply by 100, that's 1200 line pairs of resolution capacity for the lenses, which means 2400 individual line resolution capacity. Simple math.
Optics are not the issue. Bandwidth is the issue. The best machines CAN resolve everything 1080p has to offer, and more, so yes, there's a point to going beyond 2K. More so for some people and their projectors than others, of course.
Even with a bandwidth limitation, that doesn't mean that a hypothetical 3K image can't look better than 1080p. In fact, I think it would. At least with the best machines.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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ElTopo wrote: | That would be very interesting. |
I really also want to try a 2.4ish scope scan rate for 4ki @ 48Hz too. This I think will work well with active area scanning through a Lumagen because there will be less flicker than 1.79 since the beam has less area to cover (1600 lines instead of 2160). And 1600x3840i @ 48Hz isn't crazy bandwidth either. That would be just 147308691 Hz which is less than 1080p 60Hz.
Heck, 1600x3840i @ 60Hz is only 184135864Hz which is less bandwidth than what I use to run 3D on CRT currently. For 3D I use about 19200000Hz, but granted that gets blurry in the corners on the G90 and is very blurry on a Marquee in the corners.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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A 250 MHz pixel clock is only a 125 MHz video bandwidth equivalent. Trivial for any healthy Marquee to handle, in STOCK form.
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016 Posts: 360
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Link Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:08 am Post subject: |
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cmjohnson wrote: | A 250 MHz pixel clock is only a 125 MHz video bandwidth equivalent. Trivial for any healthy Marquee to handle, in STOCK form. |
Interesting I know a moome craps out at around 220 MHz
So why don't you run BNC in it might work but I doubt it
and it will look bad compared to the moome.
Show us all a smpte pattern of this and It will not be resolved.
A Limegen craps out at the dac so yo going Htpc?
That will be a disaster and 48hz flicker is the answer now that
Does not sound promising.. Like I said use your 2000.00 camera
and show me a resolved smpte pattern. Most people can't resolve
Fully 1080p 72hz 195mhz pixel clock.
I do not think lumagen will provide you with a processor to do
250mhz and if so what dac made can resolve this? Please
educate me on this as I am trying to understand a pipe dream.
_________________ VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
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Link Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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I've said before, I'm not yet able to provide any imagery. I haven't even gotten around to completely rebuilding my own 9500 yet.
Anyway, I'd rather have signals available to me that exceed my projector's limits than not have signals available to me that can challenge those limits.
So give me user definable downscaled 4K resolutions and I'll find the sweet spot myself. First find the maximum resolvable horizontal resolution, then find the maximum resolvable vertical resolution, and go with that combo.
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