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Sharp now in "name" only ?

 
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HD-DAVE




Joined: 16 Feb 2007
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Location: Delta, BC


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:34 pm    Post subject: Sharp now in "name" only ? Reply with quote


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In case you missed it: Sharp has sold its TV manufacturing business (Factory in Mexico, etc) to HiSense.

http://consumerist.com/2015/08/03/sharp-will-stop-selling-tvs-in-the-americas-licenses-name-to-hisense/

http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/31/hisense-buys-sharp-us-operations/


I always thought sharp made good flatscreens...but its a tough market i guess !
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Jeremy112




Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, since Pioneer sold their Elite Television line to sharp... does that mean we're gonna see HiSense "elite" ? Razz
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cmjohnson




Joined: 03 Apr 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's kind of sad. Sony used to be the king, they fell and Sharp replaced them as the maker of the most reliable TVs in the industry, and now Sharp is heading into the slums, too.

Time was when you bought a TV and knew it was going to last 10 or 15 years or longer. Today I think a life expectancy of 3 to 5 years is probably the normal range. And many sets won't make it that far.

Worst of all, the consumer accepts that.
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Curt Palme
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pro audio industry is rife with these problems as well. Used to be that you could put a power amp that weighed 65 lbs into the sleaziest strip bar, full of smoke, the fan would eventually seize, and it would keep going. (serviced a number like that in the 80s!).

Now, even under the best conditions, in an air conditioned server room, an amp will last 5-6 years tops. Bad capacitors are rampant ,but so are bad volume control pots. One brand, even if they are set for full volume, go intermittent in retail stores. A quick cleaning and they're good to go, but it's a waste of time service call for everyone.
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmjohnson wrote:
Time was when you bought a TV and knew it was going to last 10 or 15 years or longer. Today I think a life expectancy of 3 to 5 years is probably the normal range. And many sets won't make it that far.

Worst of all, the consumer accepts that.


I really don't think it's quite as bad as it may seem. Yes, you see some 5-year old sets on the curb, and yes we all know early failures are more common than they should be, and yes, component and build quality isn't what it once was. But, you have to also remember these TVs are FAR less expensive, and therefore far more accessible than they were 30 years ago, so the sales numbers are much bigger.

Back in 1980, a 25- or 27-inch console for the living room was $500-600, which is like $1500-2000 now! Holy sheep-sh*t! So, most people had exactly one TV set, or if they had a second set, it was probably a little cheapie tabletop set. I remember those days... Most of my friends literally only had one TV, or if they had a second one for the Atari in the basement, it was the *old* set from the living room with the analog tuner that got replaced with a new TV with a remote control.

Anyway, a new 50-inch middle-of the road set now is $500 (or less). That $500 now would be like $172 in 1980 dollars. That's ridiculously cheap. Now people have 3, 4, even 5 TV sets in a single household. I realize that's not necessarily a good thing, but regardless, there are WAY more sets out there than there ever were, so of course you're going to see a lot of dead seats, too. Since they're usually not worth the labor to repair, they end up in the trash (which does suck). But, I don't think the sets themselves are as bad some think they are.

On a personal note, I bought my wife a Syntax-Olevia 37 LCD - certainly a second-tier brand - back in 2007 or so. I think it was $1000 with a $300 rebate back when a comparable Sony set was like $1200 or so. I was on a shoestring budget back then so I went cheap. That set is still trucking along! It's been used for thousands upon thousands of hours, and my son still uses it daily for PS3 duty. It's now going on nine or ten years old without a single issue. Totally anecdotal, but still...

SC
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, I have three sets in my house: A Panasonic LED 55 in my living room, a Panasonic LED 50 in my bedroom, and the Olevia in my kids' game room. The two Panasonics I bought fall 2014 weren't that much more expensive than the Olevia 37 was in 2007. Crazy, but I'm not complaining!!!

SC
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Curt Palme
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My argument has always been though.. add $20 worth of component/build quality at the manufacturing end, which would end up at say a $100-150 price increase at the retail level. Put quality back into the unit, and have them last 10 years, or at least make things serviceable.

While there are indeed hoards of people buying the lowest end crap when it comes to electronics, I personally do not do that, ever, and would like the choice to spend even more for a longer lifespan. Despite the constant push for new technology, the average consumer simply doesn't need 4/8K video or 7.2 surround with Atmos. Hell, scale back most people's 1080p TVs to 1080i, and they wouldn't know the difference. Smile
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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
My argument has always been though.. add $20 worth of component/build quality capacitors at the SAMSUNG manufacturing end, which would end up at say a $100-150 price increase at the retail level. Put quality back into the unit, and have them last 10 years, or at least make things serviceable.
Smile


There fixed!

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Curt Palme
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just Samsung. The new trend for high end manufacturers like Crown power amps, to name one, is to build high end gear, then stuff a Chinese switching power supply into it. Extron does it too, I just bought a scaler on eBay, it arrived DOA, and I had to replace all the caps in the SMPS.
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
My argument has always been though.. add $20 worth of component/build quality at the manufacturing end, which would end up at say a $100-150 price increase at the retail level. Put quality back into the unit, and have them last 10 years, or at least make things serviceable.


Here's the problem though, Curt. You're a niche case. The other 95% of the masses shop on price and the bulleted list of features on the side of the box, including whichever one has more watts, megapixels or gigahertz. So, your $20 cost/$100-150 retail increase to enhance build quality would be totally and utterly uncompetitive. Because it's uncompetitive, it would be super-low-volume, which in the sense of the size of the market, would make it more like a niche commercial product. Now, your $150 retail add that took your $900 TV to $1050, now has to be $1500 or 1600 because of the much lower volume.

I don't disagree that your approach would be preferable; it would. I just think it's literally impossible in the current marketplace. Unfortunately.

Cheers,
SC
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Curt Palme
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No question the current shopping mentality has been driven by the internet and manufacturers, which then has affected the consumer. You'd be surprised how many of my commercial customers would prefer a more expensive item that would last longer, esp my gov't customers who are spending taxpayer's dollars.

I have exactly one gov't purchasing guy that has said that the tender award is solely based on price. The rest of them go by reputation and quality of the installation and references for the most part.

The retail consumer however, it's totally different, which is why I don't do residential installations of AV systems.
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, business guys understand how to look at a purchase with TCO and lifecycle in mind. Most consumers have zero understanding of how to analyze a purchasing decision in those terms.

The average consumer looks at the purchase price and the feature list, and *maybe* the warranty. That's it. They don't consider (or at least give very little consideration to) after-sale service and support, brand reputation, or build quality.

Look at how brands like LG and Kia have been able to elevate themselves in a relatively short period of time. 10 or 15 years ago, both of those brands were known only as second-rate Korean brands that sold cheap stuff. Now, they actually make very nice, very competitive products. But the same token, American companies like Maytag and Whirlpool that were once well-known for building high-quality durable goods, now make borderline junk that while fairly competitive in the industry, is generally of lesser quality than what the Korean companies are building.

Globalization and mergers & acquisition hasn't done consumers any favors other than price and accessibility. But, that's more than offset by the value engineering that has cheapened everything to the point of disposability. That, combined with the relative high-price of people with expertise to repair things certainly isn't a good combination to keep things out of the landfill.

SC
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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
The average consumer looks at the purchase price and the feature list, and *maybe* the warranty. That's it. They don't consider (or at least give very little consideration to) after-sale service and support, brand reputation, or build quality.

To be fair, they've been trained NOT to look for after-sales service &etc -- because it hardly exists any more.
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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um, no manufacturer wants their products to last longer. Thinking so is absurd.
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larryp




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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing IMO is market confusion for the regular end users.
With tvs' avs stereos etc- with brands being made all over the world, nobody knows what's what. Buy outs, Name relabeling etc, Most believe they are all made in China or have Chinese parts
whether made China, Mexico, Korea,etc they all seem the same quality so people shop by price.

Old days you knew the brand names & where they were made and quality was known better by the consumer..

Same with speakers, Now days I look at upgrading my old Advents, but I have no idea what brand of new speakers are any better.
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VideoGrabber




Joined: 09 Apr 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
The average consumer looks at the purchase price and the feature list, and *maybe* the warranty. That's it. They don't consider (or at least give very little consideration to) after-sale service and support, brand reputation, or build quality.

While many here would value build quality, and prefer something that worked well for a long time (the mind-set we grew up with), there is yet another factor leading to cheap build quality. Very rapid feature obsolesence.

There's a lot of turnover that happens just because gear gets introduced (rushed out) with a crippled feature-set, only to be replaced 'next-year' by a new model that's a bit more complete. How many AVR vendors brought out Atmos models, with no DTS:X? Even after knowing that everyone would likely want to have both. Or with HDMI 2.0, but not HDCP 2.2, or vice-versa? Knowing that one without the other was crippled. And on and on.

People know now that something they buy today will be superceded within the next 2-3 years, and perhaps even just one. So where's the motivation to buy for greater longevity? How many really excellent-quality working AVRS for example, that are pre-HDMI, are going into landfills? (or just sitting idle, awaiting that fate)

Unfortunately not everyone is like AnalogRocks... they don't have a museum in their homes. Wink

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VideoGrabber wrote:
ecrabb wrote:
The average consumer looks at the purchase price and the feature list, and *maybe* the warranty. That's it. They don't consider (or at least give very little consideration to) after-sale service and support, brand reputation, or build quality.

While many here would value build quality, and prefer something that worked well for a long time (the mind-set we grew up with), there is yet another factor leading to cheap build quality. Very rapid feature obsolesence.

There's a lot of turnover that happens just because gear gets introduced (rushed out) with a crippled feature-set, only to be replaced 'next-year' by a new model that's a bit more complete. How many AVR vendors brought out Atmos models, with no DTS:X? Even after knowing that everyone would likely want to have both. Or with HDMI 2.0, but not HDCP 2.2, or vice-versa? Knowing that one without the other was crippled. And on and on.

People know now that something they buy today will be superceded within the next 2-3 years, and perhaps even just one. So where's the motivation to buy for greater longevity? How many really excellent-quality working AVRS for example, that are pre-HDMI, are going into landfills? (or just sitting idle, awaiting that fate)

Unfortunately not everyone is like AnalogRocks... they don't have a museum in their homes. Wink


'Museum' is a bit of a strong word. More like a way station for previously loved electronics

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VideoGrabber




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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
'Museum' is a bit of a strong word. More like a way station for previously loved electronics

OK. Smile Notice I did also say "unfortunately".

Too many people rush out to buy the "latest and greatest" new crap, regardless of it's limitations. Which is one major reason why we have so much of it. If we had a greater percentage of discerning buyers, that would in itself encourage better quality.

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km987654




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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
My argument has always been though.. add $20 worth of component/build quality at the manufacturing end, which would end up at say a $100-150 price increase at the retail level. Put quality back into the unit, and have them last 10 years, or at least make things serviceable.


Here's the problem though, Curt. You're a niche case. The other 95% of the masses shop on price and the bulleted list of features on the side of the box, including whichever one has more watts, megapixels or gigahertz. So, your $20 cost/$100-150 retail increase to enhance build quality would be totally and utterly uncompetitive. Because it's uncompetitive, it would be super-low-volume, which in the sense of the size of the market, would make it more like a niche commercial product. Now, your $150 retail add that took your $900 TV to $1050, now has to be $1500 or 1600 because of the much lower volume.

I don't disagree that your approach would be preferable; it would. I just think it's literally impossible in the current marketplace. Unfortunately.

Cheers,
SC


Manufactures should have to factor the disposal cost of their equipment into the price they sell them for new. Perhaps component quality would then improve. Its interesting that we live in a time where people are encouraged to be environmentally conscious and to say recycle yet manufactures make and people buy gear that is unserviceable and will fail early. Seems a big disconnect to me.
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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+100. If ALL businesses had to factor in ALL costs of their products (production, marketing, distribution, AND pollution and disposal) then people would automatically make the "right" choice to buy durable, quality products. A lot of our environmental problems, definitely including all the cheap crap electronics in the landfills, are because we as a society are subsidizing the manufacturers who produce that cheap crap. We pay for the disposal and the pollution of their cheap crap.
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