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Barco Graphics 808s How to use IRIS2? Setup tips?

 
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Rattanee



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 193



PostLink    Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:54 pm    Post subject: Barco Graphics 808s How to use IRIS2? Setup tips? Reply with quote


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Hey guys,

so I got a friend to help me lift the beast into my unistrut mounts today, and finally have it in position. The image center is merely 4-5cms off to the bottom left direction from what I want to be my screen center, so I think I did pretty good considering my screen width is near 3 meters. I'm still more or less getting to know how the barco menus function, as it is very different (and in places much more primitive) then the NECs. I've come across a few things I don't quite get how to solve.

1. IRIS2
The IRIS2 passes self test. I did the camera aim and focus procedures, this part works as it should. I wanted to see it work, but choosing any option other than "touchup" results in no change to the convergence, and a red "no pattern" text being printed after the flashing patterns stop. I am pretty certain that I am doing something wrong... but what? I know it will never be as good as a manual setup, but I'd love to see this thing work.

2. Raster/image size
The NEC handles image setup in a much more logical (to me at least) manner, so I'm a little lost, but I can figure most of this out. I'd like some advice regarding throw distance/image size relation though. Once the raster is maximized to fill the tube faces nicely, I am guessing the test pattern is actually the same size as the raster and should be larger than the actual image on the tube face right? So in order to get good convergence, the projected test pattern on my screen should be larger than the actual screen area correct? On a Barco, is it safe to stretch the raster over the edges of the tube so that the active image fills the tubeface, or would I be risking a cracked tube with that?

3. LC conversion?
Is there an LC chamber/lens set for these that is at least as sharp as the factory lenses, and has colored C elements available? I love the focus I can get out of this thing, but I really -really- feel the colours as they are now are degrading this set to early DLP standards (as far as colour goes that is)... If such a set is not available I'll just stick to the HD145 lens mod.

4. "Blocks" ????
So in the NEC, all inputs could be registered in an aptly named input list, something I found very easy to use, and with the setup copy feature, it made setting up new resolutions -very- easy. I am lead to believe that the 'blocks' with barco are the same. I saw the copy feature, but is there a way to directly access the list of blocks and name them so I know what was set up for what? (It'd be useful as say a Gamecube and a PS2 run at the same resolution, but use different timings, hence image position is off at least by 30cms on my screen between the two in horizontal position if the input setup is the same...)

5. Zone convergence
Earlier, when I was messing around with the PJ still on the floor, I managed to set up a pretty decent convergence, though what I had trouble were with were the edges. I guess overshooting the screen will get that fixed, however when fed an 1080P signal, the zone convergence screen was somewhat of a mess... the top was rather wavey, and moving towards the lower zones with the selector, made the middle zones "jump" once when passing the middle... Is this because of the imperfect timings? The image had foldover towards the sides.

6. What is an affordable but good scaler that will work well with this machine?
I have foldover at the right side of the image, or a lot is lost on the left side. Those are my two alternatives for 1080P directly from a HDfury, no matter how I set H-phase. I'm lead to believe this is merely a timing problem (I actually found that there is not much of a difference if any between 1080p and 1080i on this set, so I'd like to get p working fine), but do correct me if I am wrong. What scaler should I be on the lookout for that would solve this problem for me WITHOUT lowering the actual pixel-x-pixel resolution of the video image? RGB only input is fine as I could loop it into my matrix switcher. Been looking at the DVDO VP50, but am unsure whether I could use it to cure this problem, also I've not located one within the EU yet at an acceptable price.

Whew... I think that is about it... huge thanks for any and all advice!
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gregstv



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 625
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
The first thing is to get a processor. You will need this to move the picture out of the left side banding zone when running higher scan rates. 817@72 look good on these units as does 1080p@48.
I don't bother with the IRIS system. I use the test pattern from a DVDO VP50. These are reasonable cheap on EBay, and set up the projector manually.
The HD144 lens do produce better colour. LC parts are impossible to find. I will also say that the HD8 REV B's don't look to bad when setup. The attached picture is my SEOS 808s test set running 1080p@60 with HD8 REV B lens.



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Rattanee



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 193



PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually figured out the IRIS problem. The bottom band of the IRIS pattern was always projected outside the screen surface, and the camera couldn't identify it. Once I moved the PJ a little closer and set up blanking, it worked on the first try. I have to say, it actually did a pretty decent job! Except for the very edges, the convergence it set up is pretty much spot on!

I do have a HD145 set that I want to install on it, and I have a lead on some LC chambers, but that would probably still be with clear C elements, and I'd still need a set of lenses... I am somewhat unsure whether it would be worth the time and effort to convert with clear C elements though... The colored lanses on the NEC spoiled my color receptors Very Happy I know the HD8 are pretty decent, but haloing is much more noticable than even with the HD6s that came stock with my NEC PG plains.

_________________
Watching atm: Barco Cine 8 Onyx (HD-18 modded)
Working on atm: Barco 808s --> Cine8 Onyx conversion
Retired/shelved units: 2xNEC 9PG, 2xNEC 6PG Plus, Barco Vision 600, Sony VPH-1021
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Rattanee



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 193



PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay... so how do you get the convergence to cooperate? Because it's been trying it's damnest to piss me off... no matter what I do, I can't get the left edge of the screen properly converged... the red and blue patterns are either outside of the green raster, or if I pull them in, I will get them peeking out to the right in the next row of zones... the red is also higher then blue or green on the -very- left edge, making it technically impossible to pull it in with the zone convergence thing... it is odd as my red raster (before touching convergence) is shaped very differently then the other two....
_________________
Watching atm: Barco Cine 8 Onyx (HD-18 modded)
Working on atm: Barco 808s --> Cine8 Onyx conversion
Retired/shelved units: 2xNEC 9PG, 2xNEC 6PG Plus, Barco Vision 600, Sony VPH-1021
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fragzero



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344



PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rattanee wrote:
Okay... so how do you get the convergence to cooperate? Because it's been trying it's damnest to piss me off... no matter what I do, I can't get the left edge of the screen properly converged... the red and blue patterns are either outside of the green raster, or if I pull them in, I will get them peeking out to the right in the next row of zones... the red is also higher then blue or green on the -very- left edge, making it technically impossible to pull it in with the zone convergence thing... it is odd as my red raster (before touching convergence) is shaped very differently then the other two....


Which resolution? The higher you go the more important mechanical setup becomes!

Make sure you start by doing the coarse convergence or you will not be able to converge 100%. I had issue with converging the left side, fixed those by improving mechanical setup + tweaking the width coils inside the chassis.
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Rattanee



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 193



PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm getting the same problem whether I do 1280x1024 or 1080p.

My mechanical setup should be near perfect, I did spend a lot of time on it. Resetting all the settings and doing the installation from scratch, I don't have to move the rasters in the menus at all, and when the crosshairs come up, the centers are spot on.
When the test pattern first comes up after installation, my red raster is pretty wonky though. The center is spot on, but it seems to be horizontally skewed... technically it makes it pretty much impossible to set up good convergence with the coarse controls only.

I did think it might be size differences in the raster, but I've not figured out how to match raster sizes perfectly... still, that would not explain why my red raster is misbehaving..

What I did was let IRIS do a convergence, then tried to touch that up.

_________________
Watching atm: Barco Cine 8 Onyx (HD-18 modded)
Working on atm: Barco 808s --> Cine8 Onyx conversion
Retired/shelved units: 2xNEC 9PG, 2xNEC 6PG Plus, Barco Vision 600, Sony VPH-1021
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fragzero



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344



PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mechanical setup as in parallel to the screen, 100% in the center etc.

You can change the raster width using the width coils (inside the chassis) and the height using the potentiometers on the V-output board.
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gregstv



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 625
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a processor. You need to get the picture out of the left side banding. Play with the phase and you should be able to get the convergence to come good. A processor will help you adjust the picture. Move the raster to the left and the picture to the right to get it centred.
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Rattanee



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 193



PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Height is okay. Mechanical setup is good too. The only thing I have not done is rotate the yokes... Projector aim is near perfect... I have the projector pointing within 1cm of my exact screen center.

Greg, I oddly enough see no banding on screen. When looking into the tubes I can see the raster edges having some banding, but it doesn't seem to be present when there's active video. That's really not what I am having problems with. My Red raster seems to be asymmetrical, and since there are no detailed controls for each separate raster like in the NEC, adjusting it to be perfect with zone only is a tall order...

I will take a few pictures in the afternoon...

_________________
Watching atm: Barco Cine 8 Onyx (HD-18 modded)
Working on atm: Barco 808s --> Cine8 Onyx conversion
Retired/shelved units: 2xNEC 9PG, 2xNEC 6PG Plus, Barco Vision 600, Sony VPH-1021
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gregstv



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 625
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it have COG?
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Rattanee



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 193



PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, no convergence on green... it's odd though... I've loosened the yokes, and all three rasters (set to midpoint) behave slightly differently...

Green seems to be the best, aside from a slight asymmetry in the corners, that's fine. Set the centerline horizontal by rotating the yoke, and all it needs is bow and a hint of keystone correction to be square.

Red... set so the horizontal centerline is parallel to the green, the vertical lines are slanted right of the green verticals...

Blue... I set the yoke so that the blue centerline is "symmetrically parallel" to the green centerline... the blue raster's centerline bows down towards the edges. Setting the yoke so that the bow is equal on both sides lines the center verticals up with the red pretty nicely, but everythign else is off...

Seeing how I'm just getting used to the Barco way of things, I am not entirely sure how to proceed here... From what I've seen so far, The convergence setup of the Barco is seriously inferior to the NEC that I've used before (it's a shame because the focus is so much better it's amazing... I'm actually blown away by how good my focus was on the first try...! at 1280*1024, everything is legible in every corner of the screen!) I'll try and snap some screens today, yesterday I was busy dealing with the post office... (hoorray for broken tubes! Not...)

Oh yeah and I have the PJ mounted so that it projects slightly left of my marked screen center, this way when content is centered on the screen, the banding will be in the blanked area.
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