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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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I just heard that they did the blending without additional software or hardware. So this edge blending semu 2 advanced and the contrast modulation should be all there is. I am going to play a little with it soon as I have some time.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 2852 Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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Link Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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redfox001 wrote: | I just heard that they did the blending without additional software or hardware. So this edge blending semu 2 advanced and the contrast modulation should be all there is. I am going to play a little with it soon as I have some time. |
Barco edge blending is in firmware on the SEMU board.
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013 Posts: 489 Location: Germany/Saarland
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Link Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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I've had some thoughts on all the stuff you want to do, because i want it myself.
Note that i never actually did those things, i can only talk about my personal theoretical understandings.
About your lens problems:
Try putting spacers (like e.g. washers) between the C- element holding ring and the lens.
I tried this with the GT17, it enables the lens to focus a smaller picture/ nearer screen.
I can't say much about the sharpness because the pj is only very roughly set up, but it works.
Try it, costs you about 5 minutes.
Blending options:
I think that more than 2 projectors on a 3-3,5m screen are waste.
The key using two projectors on 2,4/1 aspect ratio is that you get exactly 1,32/1 aspects on the tubes in a 2 pj side by side blend.
Because 2,4/1 divided by 2 = 1,2/1. Add 10% blend zone to each projector and you'll get 1,2+0,12=1,32/1.
The P19xx tubes have about 154x112mm usable phosphor surface, which corresponds 1,375/1.
Neglecting keystone and other geometry finetuning (which depend on the pj placement and angeling) this is a 96% phosphor usage.
And on the tubes, it is very very close to 1,333/1 (=4/3). That means you could do most height/with settings by sliding the yokes on the tube necks
and maybe do 5% via the remote. Less drift and longer life of otherwise highly stressed deflection circuits. At least the horizontal ones.
For comparision: If you stack two pjs (or use a single one) on 2,4/1, you'll use 57,3% of the phosphor.
I'll guess you (at least) double the tube life on a 2 pj blend.
Using 4 pjs, 2x left half pic and 2x right half pic stack will sure cause many additional problems
in regards of drift etc. Noise, energy costs and warming up of your room will surely get horrible.
If someone wants to set up 4 pjs for one screen, the only application (for home use) this makes sense to me would be
a massive room and a rear projection scenario. So you could at least get rid of the noise.
If 3 projectors are used, the only solution to me is to mount all tubes (or projectors) 90°.
Using the math, I get 112x3-(11,2x2)=313,6/154=2,04/1. Corresponds 85% phosphor use on 2,4/1 movies.
But i think that no one will be crazy enough to hang 3 909 sideways to the ceiling. Needs a room height about 3m to be able to watch movies
About stacking:
It is (for me) hard to understand how a stack could work at all.
Let's say you stack only 2 pjs, you'll get half the resolution of a single pj (on the screen),
if one pj drifts only 1 pixel, in any direction.
That applies to a blend as well, but only in the blendzone, which is about 10% of the picture.
And it would be not very visible here, because in that zone one pj is always brighter that the other one.
This is only theoretical, maybe turns out different in a real world blend/stack, but this is how i understand the theory.
About PC- blending:
I recently got a (about 10 years old) Nvidia quadro card for some pennies.
Afaik these quadros support edge blending via driver control.
The best solution i can think of. If you use a PC as source (i certainly will do), it should be the best way to go.
What purpose serves e.g. the media player classic solution if you want to play computer games on the screen?`
None. It will only make possible to play movies.
This card is old and could not support recent games. I know that. There may even not be a driver for Win7.
But: If the edge blending via the Quadro works well, i know that it makes sense to buy a recent Quadro.
And before i purchase some black boxes that could not do more than a good software solution, i'll do it the soft way.
If you are ready to test some stuff with the PC, i could lend you that card for one or two weeks.
Or check ebay, there are sometimes older Quadros for cheap.
My Marquees both have the contrast modulation boards, and that should be enough for the beginning.
I will try blending when i have the second 9500 ready.
Should be in the next weeks.
Hope that i wrote something helpful.
Regards, Julian
_________________ Marquee 9500U edgeblend P43 | NEC 9PG
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 2852 Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:47 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe your below statement is correct.
"Let's say you stack only 2 pjs, you'll get half the resolution of a single pj (on the screen),"
The way I understand stacking is that there are two projector images superimposed on each other meaning each projector is outputting the same image resolution. So if it were a 1080p image both projectors output 1080p.
Unless you mean something else or my understanding is not correct.
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2645 Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:08 am Post subject: |
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km987654 wrote: | I don't believe your below statement is correct.
"Let's say you stack only 2 pjs, you'll get half the resolution of a single pj (on the screen),"
The way I understand stacking is that there are two projector images superimposed on each other meaning each projector is outputting the same image resolution. So if it were a 1080p image both projectors output 1080p.
Unless you mean something else or my understanding is not correct. |
You are correct the resolution stays the same, so it would be say 2x 1280x720 images, one on top of the other, to increase the brightness. It should not deteriorate the resolution. If it does, you aren't doing it right
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 2789 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Jeremy112 wrote: | km987654 wrote: | I don't believe your below statement is correct.
"Let's say you stack only 2 pjs, you'll get half the resolution of a single pj (on the screen),"
The way I understand stacking is that there are two projector images superimposed on each other meaning each projector is outputting the same image resolution. So if it were a 1080p image both projectors output 1080p.
Unless you mean something else or my understanding is not correct. |
You are correct the resolution stays the same, so it would be say 2x 1280x720 images, one on top of the other, to increase the brightness. It should not deteriorate the resolution. If it does, you aren't doing it right |
but he says:
Quote: | Let's say you stack only 2 pjs, you'll get half the resolution of a single pj (on the screen), if one pj drifts only 1 pixel, in any direction. |
Imagine a 1:1 test pattern, if one pj drifts 1 pixel you get no black bar at 1:1, and even on 2:2 you'll get 1:3, so the resolution is decreasing, not always halfing, but in some cases yes, also it is easy to see that it is hard to maintain the same resolution in a stack as with a single pj because the two pictures have to be match with zero tolerance.
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current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 2852 Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Isn't resolution the amount of data in an image and if thats correct then 1 pixel left or right how does that change the amount of data and do pixels have any relevance to an analog CRT? A misalignment will surely effect image quality.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Julian. Good points.
About the resolution. Normally we converge 3 colours with a blend in the zone we have to converge 6 colours. I think that can be done accurate with the zone convergence but a little drifting will be fatal. Have to see how that works out.
_________________ 701s->runco933->8500ultra->hd1->hd350->vw100->cinemax+919sp+3x919+9500mp->cinemax+919sp(modded)+kuro600a
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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km987654 wrote: | I don't believe your below statement is correct.
"Let's say you stack only 2 pjs, you'll get half the resolution of a single pj (on the screen),"
The way I understand stacking is that there are two projector images superimposed on each other meaning each projector is outputting the same image resolution. So if it were a 1080p image both projectors output 1080p.
Unless you mean something else or my understanding is not correct. |
Before 1080i people who stacked did so to avoid using a line doubler.
they would shift the one PJ's image off by one line horizontaly . So back in the 480i days they shift one PJ
so the final image was 960. It would hide the scan lines.
Some continued this with 1080i. but at that res it really wasn't needed.
Nashou
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:19 am Post subject: |
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ElTopo wrote: | 4 x 909 would mean you will be the first ONE doing native 4K ! |
And what test videos would you watch?
_________________ Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Very first picture on the wall. The picture is 115cm wide and the distance to the screen is 2m. I can focus this way and I must say how easy this all focusses and how easy the 919 works. I sort of missed that And look at the very little ringing! That is what I love in the 909/919 they focus everywhere and easy.
Two of them should have enough bandwidth. I am starting to get enthousiast for this project
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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It is in fact easy to split the image with VLC. It has video wall filters. Might be that the windows version has more options as the osx version.
Needs some work but ran smooth
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't this what some people where looking for in hardware?
This module seems to be there only in the windows version. So next thing wil be to get my pc. OSX has the video wall module but that one is to simple and has no blending zone.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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When I am looking at the Nvidea tool I also do not see the option to create a blending zone.
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Last edited by redfox001 on Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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This principle works using vlc panoramix and my macbook pro.
I had to install windows and there was support for all three screens.
Panoramix gives a blending zone. It is possible to use panoramix alone without hardware. You need an older vlc version to get the fullscreen right.
I have two moome by the way. One is the new version and the other one is a modified external.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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By the wy they are not even that noisy and it was fun
_________________ 701s->runco933->8500ultra->hd1->hd350->vw100->cinemax+919sp+3x919+9500mp->cinemax+919sp(modded)+kuro600a
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koldby
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 Posts: 126 Location: Denmark
TV/Projector: GJAKY modded VDC marquee 9500lc ultra
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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hi Redfox
Have you tried this:
http://www.edge-blending.com/
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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That looks like very professional software and not that expensive. But I have one problem. They say you need plugins to get a video into the blending modules.
Content rendering
TorsionBlend is designed to be easily extended by plugins. Plugins process input signals and delivery the content to edge-blending engine,then the whole content will be projected out.TorsionBlend provide rich plugins for supporting different input format.It support image, video, local desktop, remote desktop(VNC), capture card... It also support 3d video playback, huge size of video playback solutions. For more details, please contact us
Now you have to contact them for the plugins. I want to play downloaded mkv's (that I pay for with Netflix). That is also the problem with the software from Soleboy. It seems to only accept quicktime movies. Also it seems to have a little overkill with the geometric warping. I do like the colour calibration in the zone. Have to check if panoramix allows colour correction in the zone.
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