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Edge blend 2 x Barco 919 tryout
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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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I just heard that they did the blending without additional software or hardware. So this edge blending semu 2 advanced and the contrast modulation should be all there is. I am going to play a little with it soon as I have some time.

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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also got these devices:

http://www.l-com.com/serial-converters-controller-cards-netport-rs232-to-ethernet-adapter

Ethernet to rs232. There is a webserver in it so the 919 could be read and controlled through a browser. I wonder if I can do anything with them?

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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2763
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redfox001 wrote:
I just heard that they did the blending without additional software or hardware. So this edge blending semu 2 advanced and the contrast modulation should be all there is. I am going to play a little with it soon as I have some time.



Barco edge blending is in firmware on the SEMU board.
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tschaeikaei



Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 471
Location: Germany/Saarland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had some thoughts on all the stuff you want to do, because i want it myself.
Note that i never actually did those things, i can only talk about my personal theoretical understandings.

About your lens problems:

Try putting spacers (like e.g. washers) between the C- element holding ring and the lens.
I tried this with the GT17, it enables the lens to focus a smaller picture/ nearer screen.
I can't say much about the sharpness because the pj is only very roughly set up, but it works.
Try it, costs you about 5 minutes.

Blending options:
I think that more than 2 projectors on a 3-3,5m screen are waste.
The key using two projectors on 2,4/1 aspect ratio is that you get exactly 1,32/1 aspects on the tubes in a 2 pj side by side blend.
Because 2,4/1 divided by 2 = 1,2/1. Add 10% blend zone to each projector and you'll get 1,2+0,12=1,32/1.
The P19xx tubes have about 154x112mm usable phosphor surface, which corresponds 1,375/1.
Neglecting keystone and other geometry finetuning (which depend on the pj placement and angeling) this is a 96% phosphor usage.
And on the tubes, it is very very close to 1,333/1 (=4/3). That means you could do most height/with settings by sliding the yokes on the tube necks
and maybe do 5% via the remote. Less drift and longer life of otherwise highly stressed deflection circuits. At least the horizontal ones.

For comparision: If you stack two pjs (or use a single one) on 2,4/1, you'll use 57,3% of the phosphor.
I'll guess you (at least) double the tube life on a 2 pj blend.

Using 4 pjs, 2x left half pic and 2x right half pic stack will sure cause many additional problems
in regards of drift etc. Noise, energy costs and warming up of your room will surely get horrible.

If someone wants to set up 4 pjs for one screen, the only application (for home use) this makes sense to me would be
a massive room and a rear projection scenario. So you could at least get rid of the noise.

If 3 projectors are used, the only solution to me is to mount all tubes (or projectors) 90.
Using the math, I get 112x3-(11,2x2)=313,6/154=2,04/1. Corresponds 85% phosphor use on 2,4/1 movies.

But i think that no one will be crazy enough to hang 3 909 sideways to the ceiling. Needs a room height about 3m to be able to watch movies Very Happy

About stacking:
It is (for me) hard to understand how a stack could work at all.
Let's say you stack only 2 pjs, you'll get half the resolution of a single pj (on the screen),
if one pj drifts only 1 pixel, in any direction.
That applies to a blend as well, but only in the blendzone, which is about 10% of the picture.
And it would be not very visible here, because in that zone one pj is always brighter that the other one.

This is only theoretical, maybe turns out different in a real world blend/stack, but this is how i understand the theory.

About PC- blending:
I recently got a (about 10 years old) Nvidia quadro card for some pennies.
Afaik these quadros support edge blending via driver control.
The best solution i can think of. If you use a PC as source (i certainly will do), it should be the best way to go.
What purpose serves e.g. the media player classic solution if you want to play computer games on the screen?`
None. It will only make possible to play movies.
This card is old and could not support recent games. I know that. There may even not be a driver for Win7.
But: If the edge blending via the Quadro works well, i know that it makes sense to buy a recent Quadro.
And before i purchase some black boxes that could not do more than a good software solution, i'll do it the soft way.
If you are ready to test some stuff with the PC, i could lend you that card for one or two weeks.
Or check ebay, there are sometimes older Quadros for cheap.

My Marquees both have the contrast modulation boards, and that should be enough for the beginning.
I will try blending when i have the second 9500 ready.
Should be in the next weeks.

Hope that i wrote something helpful.
Regards, Julian

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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2763
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe your below statement is correct.

"Let's say you stack only 2 pjs, you'll get half the resolution of a single pj (on the screen),"

The way I understand stacking is that there are two projector images superimposed on each other meaning each projector is outputting the same image resolution. So if it were a 1080p image both projectors output 1080p.

Unless you mean something else or my understanding is not correct.
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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

km987654 wrote:
I don't believe your below statement is correct.

"Let's say you stack only 2 pjs, you'll get half the resolution of a single pj (on the screen),"

The way I understand stacking is that there are two projector images superimposed on each other meaning each projector is outputting the same image resolution. So if it were a 1080p image both projectors output 1080p.

Unless you mean something else or my understanding is not correct.


You are correct Thumbs Up the resolution stays the same, so it would be say 2x 1280x720 images, one on top of the other, to increase the brightness. It should not deteriorate the resolution. If it does, you aren't doing it right Wink

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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2650
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeremy112 wrote:
km987654 wrote:
I don't believe your below statement is correct.

"Let's say you stack only 2 pjs, you'll get half the resolution of a single pj (on the screen),"

The way I understand stacking is that there are two projector images superimposed on each other meaning each projector is outputting the same image resolution. So if it were a 1080p image both projectors output 1080p.

Unless you mean something else or my understanding is not correct.


You are correct Thumbs Up the resolution stays the same, so it would be say 2x 1280x720 images, one on top of the other, to increase the brightness. It should not deteriorate the resolution. If it does, you aren't doing it right Wink


but he says:
Quote:
Let's say you stack only 2 pjs, you'll get half the resolution of a single pj (on the screen), if one pj drifts only 1 pixel, in any direction.


Imagine a 1:1 test pattern, if one pj drifts 1 pixel you get no black bar at 1:1, and even on 2:2 you'll get 1:3, so the resolution is decreasing, not always halfing, but in some cases yes, also it is easy to see that it is hard to maintain the same resolution in a stack as with a single pj because the two pictures have to be match with zero tolerance.

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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2763
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't resolution the amount of data in an image and if thats correct then 1 pixel left or right how does that change the amount of data and do pixels have any relevance to an analog CRT? A misalignment will surely effect image quality.
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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Julian. Good points.

About the resolution. Normally we converge 3 colours with a blend in the zone we have to converge 6 colours. I think that can be done accurate with the zone convergence but a little drifting will be fatal. Have to see how that works out.

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

km987654 wrote:
I don't believe your below statement is correct.

"Let's say you stack only 2 pjs, you'll get half the resolution of a single pj (on the screen),"

The way I understand stacking is that there are two projector images superimposed on each other meaning each projector is outputting the same image resolution. So if it were a 1080p image both projectors output 1080p.

Unless you mean something else or my understanding is not correct.


Before 1080i people who stacked did so to avoid using a line doubler.
they would shift the one PJ's image off by one line horizontaly . So back in the 480i days they shift one PJ
so the final image was 960. It would hide the scan lines.

Some continued this with 1080i. but at that res it really wasn't needed.

Nashou

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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
4 x 909 would mean you will be the first ONE doing native 4K !

And what test videos would you watch?

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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very first picture on the wall. The picture is 115cm wide and the distance to the screen is 2m. I can focus this way and I must say how easy this all focusses and how easy the 919 works. I sort of missed that Very Happy And look at the very little ringing! That is what I love in the 909/919 they focus everywhere and easy.

Two of them should have enough bandwidth. I am starting to get enthousiast for this project Very Happy


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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Need to find this link back quick
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36160

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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is in fact easy to split the image with VLC. It has video wall filters. Might be that the windows version has more options as the osx version.

Needs some work but ran smooth Smile

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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't this what some people where looking for in hardware?

This module seems to be there only in the windows version. So next thing wil be to get my pc. OSX has the video wall module but that one is to simple and has no blending zone.


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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I am looking at the Nvidea tool I also do not see the option to create a blending zone.
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Last edited by redfox001 on Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This principle works using vlc panoramix and my macbook pro.

I had to install windows and there was support for all three screens.

Panoramix gives a blending zone. It is possible to use panoramix alone without hardware. You need an older vlc version to get the fullscreen right.


I have two moome by the way. One is the new version and the other one is a modified external.



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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the wy they are not even that noisy and it was fun Very Happy
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koldby



Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Denmark

TV/Projector: GJAKY modded VDC marquee 9500lc ultra


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi Redfox
Have you tried this:
http://www.edge-blending.com/

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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks like very professional software and not that expensive. But I have one problem. They say you need plugins to get a video into the blending modules.

Content rendering
TorsionBlend is designed to be easily extended by plugins. Plugins process input signals and delivery the content to edge-blending engine,then the whole content will be projected out.TorsionBlend provide rich plugins for supporting different input format.It support image, video, local desktop, remote desktop(VNC), capture card... It also support 3d video playback, huge size of video playback solutions. For more details, please contact us

Now you have to contact them for the plugins. I want to play downloaded mkv's (that I pay for with Netflix). That is also the problem with the software from Soleboy. It seems to only accept quicktime movies. Also it seems to have a little overkill with the geometric warping. I do like the colour calibration in the zone. Have to check if panoramix allows colour correction in the zone.

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