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4k blu-ray to 1080i?
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Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
Spanky Ham wrote:
I haven't kept up that much, but even with a wider color gamut how are you planning on displaying the wider color gamut on a CRT?

Bloody good question that, brings me back to my first reply Wink


Theoretically one could make some new c-elements that would adhere to the new standard. The problem is that no one seems to know how to do it easily. A new c-element was talked about in the past, but the project fizzled. I guess it would be possible to use a translucent colored paint on the outside of the element, but I am not sure how good it would be.
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok 2160i

Better case ?
Thumbs Up

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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
Spanky Ham wrote:
I haven't kept up that much, but even with a wider color gamut how are you planning on displaying the wider color gamut on a CRT?

Bloody good question that, brings me back to my first reply Wink


Theoretically one could make some new c-elements that would adhere to the new standard. The problem is that no one seems to know how to do it easily. A new c-element was talked about in the past, but the project fizzled. I guess it would be possible to use a translucent colored paint on the outside of the element, but I am not sure how good it would be.


A good question if it is a viable solution to crop the rec709 color space out of the (otherwise) bigger rec2020 (with software) and transform the primaries, what is missing from the 709 it should be substituted somehow, just an idea.

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Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you reduce it down to REC709 then you are eliminating one of the big advantages of going to new standard. The hope would be that even if you couldn't go UHD resolution then you could at least take advantage of higher bit and expanded color. Barring that then there would be no real reason for a CRTer to use the new BR.
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CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
Ok 2160i

Better case ?
Thumbs Up

Have you tried it yet??

Ive done 2560x1600 before, and it wasnt sharp enough to bother.

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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
If you reduce it down to REC709 then you are eliminating one of the big advantages of going to new standard. The hope would be that even if you couldn't go UHD resolution then you could at least take advantage of higher bit and expanded color. Barring that then there would be no real reason for a CRTer to use the new BR.


The color space might be smaller, but that doesn't mean you can't experience the advantage of the better color resolution -maybe.

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virusc




Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 318
Location: Massachusetts


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I meant UHD blu ray and not cinema 4k. Everyone but one person here I think assumed that too. I have used a d5 deck 4:2:2 10bit video to a CRT projector and I can tell you it is amazing due to 4:2:2 and 10bit. If we could have that UHD disks somehow display 4:2:2 10bit to CRT it could hold me over until 4k projectors come down in price and they settle all the compatibility issues.
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried 2048 x 1536 (4:3) and that was fine.

You could then use 2 projectors with that resolution and blend.

2 x 2048 = 4096 and gives you a blend zone of 256 to achive 3840

For cinemascope you only need 1536p like it is with 800p.


My Sony CRT monitor looks superb sharp with that resolution.




ElTopo

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CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isnt about CRT monitors with very high bandwidth though, this is about a Barco CRT projector that i dont reckon will do what you think it will.

Trying 2048x1536 is nothing special, i said before i did 2560x1600 and it was soft, what i want to know ElTopo, is have you tried 3840x2160i on your machine?

1536p is NOT like 800p, youre 64 lines short, and what do you then do for 2.35:1 or 1.78:1 movies? Boarders at the sides? Youre still 75 lines and 624 lines short. You either cut parts off or distort and scale, and for what?

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CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

virusc wrote:
So I meant UHD blu ray and not cinema 4k. Everyone but one person here I think assumed that too. I have used a d5 deck 4:2:2 10bit video to a CRT projector and I can tell you it is amazing due to 4:2:2 and 10bit. If we could have that UHD disks somehow display 4:2:2 10bit to CRT it could hold me over until 4k projectors come down in price and they settle all the compatibility issues.

No, all except one person has an interest in using the correct term, rather than being the sheep that follows the masses in thinking UHD and 4k are the same thing, when theyre vastly different. One is a commercial standard, the other is consumer grade.

The thing is, youll spend all kinds of money to make this work, and it wont serve you the same as just buying the right projector for the job in the first place.

I have sent 1920x1080 stills to my CineMAX at 4:4:4 and sure it looks great, better than 4:2:0, but if i put 3840x2160 stills on my Barco and compare them to my UHD monitor, theyre truly worlds apart, even if i set them 1:1 on the Barco and only view 1/4 of the image. Ive downloaded half a 3840x2160 demo video and viewed it on both, the Barco doesnt look much better than a regular bluray, where as the UHD monitor easily looks 4 times better.


Try sending 2160i to a CRT projector and see what you reckon.

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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a gaphic card with analog out which supports that resolution.

Any graphic card which does it ?

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Jeremy112




Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2645
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
I don't have a gaphic card with analog out which supports that resolution.

Any graphic card which does it ?


To my knowledge no graphics card out there supports an analog resolution over 2048x1536. I only know that because I was recently looking for a graphics card for the HTPC to support 4K for projectors. The one thing I noticed is that none of them supported 4K or UHD with analog signal. Most did support 4K however through DVI, HDMI, and/or DisplayPort.

I'd be quite surprised to see one CRT be able to resolve a 4K image that would be worth watching... I just don't see it happening unless some magical new CRT projector just came out that supports 4K natively like most current CRT PJs supported HD natively)

the blend idea for doing 4K sounded like something that could happen though... but I wont go there since I've never attempted a blend or even seen how one gets setup, so I'll just keep my mouth shut on that subject Wink

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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't read the whole thread, but I will say that what I have seen is that the BD ultra HD color spec is going to use Rec709 but have more color information and better codecs. So color depth should be better on 4K BD as it stands now and the existing CRT color gamut will be compatible... for the moment.

Im on vacation now in Glacier National Park, but I can post more about this when I get home. There is almost no internet here let alone cell phone service.

craigr

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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.tvone.com/Attachment/DownloadFile?downloadId=142

Those can do an analog Output of 2048 x 2048.

I have tested 2048 x 1536 without issues on my Sony CRT Monitor

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CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Sony CRT monitor will probably have in excess of 200MHz bandwidth, making it no problem.

The nVIDIA 760GTX can output 2560x1600 via analog output.

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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tv one's should also do interlaced with 2048 x 1536.

Will try that.

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CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im still interested to know what relevance 2048x1536 has with anything at all.
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2048 x 1536 = 4:3

So if you have this on each projector you get 8:3 = 2,66666

Minus the blend zone you'll get 1:2.35 / 1.2:40


It would be the same as Nashou does with 1064 x 800 on each = 2128 x 800 (2,66 incl. blendzone of 208)

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xmob135lc




Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 80



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
2048 x 1536
x 60hz (72... 75... 90)

if this fits into the TV one's framebuffer in its entirety (can use scale / zoom operations?) it could be interesting to me (sent PM why).
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CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
2048 x 1536 = 4:3

So if you have this on each projector you get 8:3 = 2,66666

Minus the blend zone you'll get 1:2.35 / 1.2:40


It would be the same as Nashou does with 1064 x 800 on each = 2128 x 800 (2,66 incl. blendzone of 208)

But why 1536? Why not 1600 or 1636?

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