CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

CIR Engineering · Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject:

macgyver655 · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 8508

macgyver655 · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 8508

Well it's been a while since I wrote up any interesting info here so I spent a little time today to give you guys a little treat.
I have a bunch of PDF's on this subject but they are to large to post here so I may snip some parts out later and post. But for now we have an answer to what is in a bluray player. So here goes:

1st, I had a bluray player here that was non working so I opened it up and pulled out the sled. Here it is as a dual laser unit like what is being discussed.

So next we want to see what is under those lenses. The unit is glued down so I cut the glue to remove.

Well nothing more then a housing that holds the 2 upper lenses. Under that are 2 openings and the photo detector.

So we flip it over and remove the metal cover and what do we find. Interesting assy. of mirrors and lenses and laser diodes. The bluray diode is the lower left and after it takes a left turn it passes through a lens and as you can see that lens can be moved by the small motor at the lower right. Most likely to focus the beam. But only the bluray has it so that beam must be more finicky. Also, I am sure that any of those mirrors or lens being dirty could also cause a problem. Also, if you look at the right edge of the board you can see a row of 3 pots. These are the beam strength adj. pots, 1 for bluray, 1 for DVD and 1 for CD. They are marked as such. These would be the adjustments for when using the scope to tune the pattern.

I was able to test the bluray diode with a 9 volt battery and it worked fine. But i don't remember what was wrong with this unit and it was a cheapy not worth spending time on.

Here is a pic that i am marking up to show what is what.

CIR Engineering · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:00 am Post subject:

Well that is a hell of a lot more complex system than I ever expected. I also just expected a tiny little SM diode for the lasers, not that large can for the BD diode. I'll be interested to see what part number is on the diode when I take mine out. I bet they do cost more than the ten cents that I expected too.

Thanks Mac,
craigr

macgyver655 · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 8508

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/sensor-SLD3132VF-SONY-DIP-3_507111684.html

CIR Engineering · Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:07 pm Post subject:

The pickup took all of five minutes to replace. Testing now, but so far so good with BD. I think it's fixed.

craigr

CIR Engineering · Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:37 pm Post subject:

I took my pickup apart and it is kind of the reverse of your example Mac. It came apart easier from the bottom than the top. Mine also used screws and just a small amount of glue so it is more serviceable.

There are two thingies for the blu-ray beam; the LED and than another thingy. Do you know what the other thingy is Mac? Is it the photo receptor for the BD beam information? If so it's cool how the info goes back and forth through the same optical path.

That said, the diode is a pretty simple SM diode like I thought (though it is heavy duty). Your photo shows a housing around the diode, mine does not have that and the housing made your diode example look to me like the it was more substantial than it actually is.

I think that at around $11 for the entire pickup it's not worth changing just the diode. On top of that, I have no proof that the diode is the actual culprit and trouble shooting an $11 part is just kind of stupid. I'd probably have to order a ton of diodes too just to try it out.

This project reminds me of something that occurs to me every time I think about it. It's simply amazing what you can get for your money in electronics. I mean, this pickup has advanced SM technology, two complete precision optical systems, lasers, mirrors, filter, a motorized automatic focus system... on and on. All for $11. I mean, this thing should cost as much as an entire TV, not just $11. We truly live in a remarkable age of technology. And this is just part of a BD transport.

Which brings me around again to why it's not worth changing just the diode. I watched a couple youtube videos of guys in Asia changing these in PS3's. They replaced the entire pickup. Now this is not a racist statement, just a dollar per hour observation, but if it's not worth their time to change just the diode, than it's not worth mine either.

Thanks for the help again Mac and all.

craigr

CIR Engineering · Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject:

Also, now I can disconnect the BD drive and never use it so it doesn't wear out again.

Like I said, this was sort of a pointless project because I don't even need the BD drive Wink

But I learned something new and that was the real goal.

If I wanted to I could turn around and resell the player for over $400 now that it all works, but I'm keeping it.

craigr

CIR Engineering · Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:45 pm Post subject:

Also, my pickup doesn't have the cool trimmers to adjust the beam like your unit has. Mind doesn't have anything like that at all.

craigr

macgyver655 · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 8508

Good to hear. Glad it worked out.

The beam strength could be controlled via software or the pots could be somewhere else, but I doubt it. Sometimes they are real tiny on the side, in the film ribbon.

You can test the diode with a 9 volt battery. Just touch the wires momentarily though. That is a tad higher then what they should have which is app. 4.5 to 5.5v

If your diode had 3 pins, you want to apply voltage to LD and Gnd.

CIR Engineering · Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:00 pm Post subject:

macgyver655 · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 8508

macgyver655 · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 8508

I have heard of poor solder joints right on the legs of the laser diode.

CIR Engineering · Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:46 am Post subject:

So changing this pickup solved most of the issues. However, I am still having an issue where I often have to insert a BD twice before the DUNE sees that there is a disc in the drive. Also, a few BD's don't load and many take a very long time to load. Maybe this is due to the DUNE being bad with BD as many have reported, but I don't think so. I'm talking to the vendor about replacing the pickup for me.

I Googled "KES-410A quality" and found some folks saying that there are two versions of the KES-410A; one high quality with a 1 year warranty and one standard or low quality with only a three month warranty. Below is a vendor who claims to sell both versions, but on their web site they are exactly the same price with only a different length warranty.

http://www.nextekdistribution.com/sony-ps3-laser-lens-kes-410a/

I have a hard time believing that there is more than one manufacturer for these pick-ups. I also have a hard time believing that there are two different quality versions. What do you guys think?

Does Sony actually make one of these pick-ups themselves, or are they all outsourced to other manufacturers who buy them from Sony? The one I got as a replacement does not have a brand on it, it says "made in China," it says "high quality," and it says "original parts."

Thoughts?

craigr

macgyver655 · Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 8508

I find it hard to believe even the original drives would be of a good quality. Just look at all the failures you can find just in PS3's alone. Apparently the PS3 also uses a KES-450A drive and this drives appears to be horrible with mass failures.

Just scroll down this pages and note the number in red indicating number of sold units in each ad.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=kes+445&_from=R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1311.R4.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xkes+.TRS0&_nkw=kes-450a&ghostText=&_sacat=0

CIR Engineering · Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:20 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I've seen that... it's obscene.

My drive can't read any of the BDR discs that I have either and I think the PS3 can usually read these? However, I know that the ability to read well can also be due to firmware and the BTC drive's firmware is from 2005 (I think) with no known way to update it. I wish DUNE would have used a not so sh*tty drive.

craigr

CIR Engineering · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject:

Just to update.

It turns out this is not fixed properly, and the first pickup worked well due to good luck. The first pickup mostly worked, but I often had to reinsert the disc twice before it would see BD. There were also a couple BD originals that it could not see at all. I also found that the drive could not read ANY burned BD media.

So I sent the pickup back sure that it was defective. I got a new pickup from the same eBay seller, and the new one does not see ANY BD discs at all. Zero BD response from the drive now. So I went to a local shop and bought another pickup. This pickup was packaged and branded different from the others. However, this third pickup also cannot see BD at all.

So at this point, I am sure that the KES-410A is not an replacement for the DUNE pickup.

I also tried removing the diode from the new pickup and soldering it onto the old OEM pickup. I had little hope for this because this pickup does not have any way to calibrate the laser as Mac talked about earlier in the thread (no trim pots). As I expected, this ended in failure and the OEM pickup would not recognise any discs at all after this. I put the new diode back into the new pickup and it works as it did before.

I have another lead and am pursuing it now.

FRUSTRATING!!! Evil or Very Mad

craigr

CSX · Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Posts: 142 Location: Ohio

I have access to a few KES-410A assemblies and other similar parts. If you are interested in using any for testing or repair processes, please let me know.

CIR Engineering · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:41 pm Post subject:

Thank you.

The KES-410 does not work as I have tried three of them now Sad

If you have other pickups with the same pinout I would love to try them to test with. Could you give me a list of what you have please? I can then go through and check pinouts.

Very kind,
craigr