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JVC X500R
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szp72



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 25



PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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I completely agree with kal and HogPilot; unless there is some other definitive advantage (color fidelity, contrast and black level), duration alone is not something that will increase the selling of laser PJs, apart from the business market, where it is considered very important, for the reasons I already expressed in my previous post.
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HogPilot



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383


TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

szp72 wrote:
I completely agree with kal and HogPilot; unless there is some other definitive advantage (color fidelity, contrast and black level), duration alone is not something that will increase the selling of laser PJs, apart from the business market, where it is considered very important, for the reasons I already expressed in my previous post.


I think laser has the potential to sell, even if only for its significantly longer life span. I just don't think that the amount of money that any company will have to spend to rapidly get it to market in mid-level PJs is an acceptable opportunity cost, hence the slow development.

With REC.2020 having super-saturated colors, laser does have the potential to offer much more light output than a UHP lamp. To get REC.2020 from current UHP lamps they'll have to be so heavily filtered that it will significantly cut down on usable light output. UHP also suffers massive losses when you scale to more than one lamp to increase output. Laser is hypothetically scalable and has the potential for high, saturated light output with very little loss when scaling.

My position is essentially that I think that the arrival of laser will be beneficial to the HT PJ market for a variety of reasons, I just don't think we'll see it any time soon for a variety of other reasons.

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ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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szp72



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 25



PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HogPilot wrote:

My position is essentially that I think that the arrival of laser will be beneficial to the HT PJ market for a variety of reasons, I just don't think we'll see it any time soon for a variety of other reasons.


I think we all agree on that; the last part is exactly the reason why I was suggesting to anyone considering the switch to digital to forget for a moment about UHP lamp duration, because IMHO it's note really a big issue for common usage.
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HogPilot



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383


TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

szp72 wrote:
HogPilot wrote:

My position is essentially that I think that the arrival of laser will be beneficial to the HT PJ market for a variety of reasons, I just don't think we'll see it any time soon for a variety of other reasons.


I think we all agree on that; the last part is exactly the reason why I was suggesting to anyone considering the switch to digital to forget for a moment about UHP lamp duration, because IMHO it's note really a big issue for common usage.


True, lamp life limits do tend to get blown out of proportion by some.

_________________
ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't disagree totally with you SZP. If one is in the market for a digital pj right now, then JVC is an excellent option. If I could get a 4910 for a good price, then it would be a done deal.

On the flip side, I am interested in the potential of laser/led. I guess Hog hasn't been reading AVS much, because Epson's new laser/led is starting to ship and the price is supposed to be around $8k. Mark Haflich thinks that JVC will have new pjs at CES. I am not sure if that will happen, but in support of his theory is the new HDMI chip. I know the JVC guys at Cedia were anxiously awaiting the new chip and without saying it that was the reason there were no new pjs. They also had a laser/led pj in back that was a business pj. They hinted that it could be retrofitted to the HT chassis quite easily. If JVC doesn't have a laser/led at CES, then I would fully expect them to have one at Cedia.

Look, I am the first one to admit that this has been talked about forever with nothing but vaporware (Red anyone? Smile). Heck, I was loudly proclaiming that LED DLPs would be commonplace in 2010/2011 based on the number of high end LEDs at the previous Cedia. That prediction went over like a lead balloon. This is a little different as Sony and JVC have the tech in house. They just have to adapt it to the HT line.

My advice is if one needs or wants a digital and your budget is sub $6k then JVC makes a hell of a pj. I agree one can buy a lot of lamps to make up the price delta between lamp and laser/led pjs. Heck, I was shilling for Mike and Craig over at AVS for people to jump on the JVC Cedia special ( I am a cheap date Smile). On the other hand, if you want to wait a month and a half for CES and you have a $8k to $12k budget then you might be pleasantly surprised to find a laser/led JVC.

Will it a laser/led JVC be better than a lamp JVC? Maybe or maybe not. I do expect it to have much higher lumens based off of what Epson has. So, if you want to light up a 14 foot screen with a .9 gain AT screen, then a JVC laser/led might be your ticket.
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HogPilot



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383


TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, yes you're right I haven't read much outside of the OLED section of AVS lately. Plus, Mark has been wrong about several very big prognostications in the past, so despite his numerous connections in the HT industry, I take any of his major predictions with a very big grain of salt. I guess at this point I've seen the laser/LED speculation cycle happen enough that I don't put much stock in rumors. It will happen when it happens. As I said Spanky, I'd love to be wrong about this particular thing!
_________________
ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree about Mark, as I just used him for a little more weight. My guess is probably 50/50 that JVC has something new at CES.
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HogPilot



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383


TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
I agree about Mark, as I just used him for a little more weight. My guess is probably 50/50 that JVC has something new at CES.


Since 2007 JVC has always introduced their new line of projectors at CEDIA, I'd be surprised if they decided to shift to CES this year. I thought I read somewhere on AVS that someone from JVC had said they will not be introducing any new projectors this year. I'll have to dig that up and see if it was just a rumor or not.

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ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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szp72



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 25



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HogPilot wrote:
Spanky Ham wrote:
I agree about Mark, as I just used him for a little more weight. My guess is probably 50/50 that JVC has something new at CES.


Since 2007 JVC has always introduced their new line of projectors at CEDIA, I'd be surprised if they decided to shift to CES this year. I thought I read somewhere on AVS that someone from JVC had said they will not be introducing any new projectors this year. I'll have to dig that up and see if it was just a rumor or not.


I guess this is it:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1645034-new-jvc-2015-a-9.html[/url]
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HogPilot



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383


TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

szp72 wrote:
HogPilot wrote:
Spanky Ham wrote:
I agree about Mark, as I just used him for a little more weight. My guess is probably 50/50 that JVC has something new at CES.


Since 2007 JVC has always introduced their new line of projectors at CEDIA, I'd be surprised if they decided to shift to CES this year. I thought I read somewhere on AVS that someone from JVC had said they will not be introducing any new projectors this year. I'll have to dig that up and see if it was just a rumor or not.


I guess this is it:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1645034-new-jvc-2015-a-9.html[/url]


That would be the thread - post 219 was the one I was thinking of. Thanks!

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ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see Ron's post. I was with a couple other well known AVSers and got mostly the same info. The difference though was it just felt like from their words and mannerisms that the only thing holding back new models was the new HDMI chip. That chip is apparently shipping now.
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HogPilot



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383


TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
I see Ron's post. I was with a couple other well known AVSers and got mostly the same info. The difference though was it just felt like from their words and mannerisms that the only thing holding back new models was the new HDMI chip. That chip is apparently shipping now.


Yeah I saw that about the chip shipping. Although I think the chances are infinitesimally small, it certainly would be exciting to see something revolutionary from JVC at CES! I would prefer a true RGB laser light engine as opposed to Epson's blue laser/phosphor disc hybrid system. The former is much more easily scalable and is the only of the two that could offer high light output at REC.2020, and would have an even longer/more stable life span. Essentially it would be more future proof.

_________________
ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if anything happened at CES it would be nothing more than an update of the current line with the new chip and maybe some minor enhancements. The surprise of the show might be a $12k laser/led pj though. I guess we will see in six weeks. Wink
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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My God the blacks are worse than a 701? Shocked
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701s->runco933->8500ultra->hd1->hd350->vw100->cinemax+919sp+3x919+9500mp->cinemax+919sp(modded)+kuro600a
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

redfox001 wrote:
My God the blacks are worse than a 701? Shocked


What are you talking about? Did you reply in the wrong thread?

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redfox001



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2240
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: JVC X500R Reply with quote

szp72 wrote:

Blacks are very good; not exactly on par with the Ciné 7 (IMHO)


I was reading this after I had a whole lot of sh*t from the guys bragging on the CRT forum.

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