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sony g90 wont display dish network 1080p due to 24fps. help!
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Spanky Ham wrote:
Are there any issues with those converters and HDCP?

No issues at all. These are adapters, not converters of any kind. They just take an HDMI physical connector and match the pinout to DVI.

DVI and HDMI RGB 8-bit are electronically identical. They also have the same HDCP capabilities.

The Lumagen VisionHDP line can also accept full HDMI signals through the DVI connectors on the inputs. However, since they are DVI physical connectors there is no HDMI EDID information received by the VP so you must manually set the Lumagen to the correct HDMI input color space (RGB or YCbCr 444 or YCbCr 422). This can be confusing for the uninitiated, but it's easy once you understand it.

This works fine for any source where you can specify the output color space without EDID reading. Most better (and some inferior) BD players allow manually setting output color space so it works out really well. HTPC's can also have the output color space set manually.

craigr

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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ill suggest you forget all these old scalers/ processors, and spend some money on a new OPPO player like the 103 or 103D.

Who have HDMI input, and will scale and deinterlace what you feed it.

Its a better scaler and deinterlacer than any of these scalers from lumagen or DVDO.

It dont have all the advanced timing features but will allow all standard resolutions in and run 1080P 50 and 60hz out, keeping your setup nice simple and high quality.


Last edited by stridsvognen on Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Curt Palme
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's trying to watch video on demand off his Dish satellite box!
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
He's trying to watch video on demand off his Dish satellite box!


Who need to be coverted from 1080P 24hz to 1080P 60 hz right.?
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Curt Palme
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, so it will accept 1080p/24 and output 1080p/60? That would be a good way to go. I don't follow Oppo at all...
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
Ah, so it will accept 1080p/24 and output 1080p/60? That would be a good way to go. I don't follow Oppo at all...


It will plus its a reference streamer DVD and BD player.. Can be the heart of the setup, keeping it clean simple and very high quality.

If you like it will also work as a surround pre amp.
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really not a bad idea at all. And you should have an Oppo in the system anyway just for BD.

It won't do 1080p 72Hz or 3D for CRT, but it will do a good job scaling and deinterlaceing all to 1080p 60Hz without any headache.

craigr

_________________
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Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



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Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, I'll be a bit pre-emptive here, since I am heading out of town for a few days.

I've tried really hard to assist the customer in resolving his issue with the 1080p/24, but he hasn't done anything that I've suggested. My first suggestion was to call Dish, to see if they have alternative hardware or a software fix for a device that isn't 1080p/24 capable. No reply.

Instead I've gotten about 10 emails back, telling me that Craig's advice above of a cheap solution using a Lumagen HDP/HDQ scaler to convert the signal won't work, even though Craig is pretty much the foremost guy that works with Lumagen.

At this point, as I've emailed the OP, I am out. I am the first to admit that I don't know everything about CRT projectors, and for those times, I ask people to post here, especially when it's regarding hardware that Canada has no access to.

If, however, the customer goes off and does his own thing, I give up. It's exceptionally rare that I do this, in fact I can't even remember the last time I did. I am happy to assist again once the client follows some basic instructions, but until then, I wish him luck with a solution.
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Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will try to be nice.


So, Curt gave you some advice and then you posted here.

CIR Engineering wrote:
The HR34 and HR44 will output 1080p 24Hz for certain specific PPV and one demand movies. Most times the same movie is also offered in 1080i 60Hz. The HR34 and HR44 will also do 3D for specific movies.

You can either choose the 1080i version of the same movie from DISH, or you can use a video processor. The old Lumagen VisionHDP, HDQ, and HDPPro can accept 1080p 24Hz and output 1080p 60Hz or 48Hz.

I would much rather a new model though that can accept everything and will provide much more benefits with far less work. The newer Lumagen's are easier to setup and have less HDCP issues and much better image quality. I would consider a RadianceXD as the lowest model to work with now. So a Lumagen Radiance XD, XS, XE, 20xx, 21xx would be your choices for the best solution.

craigr


Craig gives you some good advice for a limited budget.

Curt Palme wrote:


Instead I've gotten about 10 emails back, telling me that Craig's advice above of a cheap solution using a Lumagen HDP/HDQ scaler to convert the signal won't work, even though Craig is pretty much the foremost guy that works with Lumagen.
.


You then question Craig's advice to Curt based on your limited knowledge of the hardware and reading the manual. Going to the Lumagen website, it clearly states that the HDP accepts 1080p/24 on the details page.

Just a FYI. You may need to read Craig's signature again. He is an authorized Lumagen dealer and works with Jim (the owner) and Lumagen to help develop their hardware. My guess is that no one knows more about Lumagen products with CRT than Craig.
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john t




Joined: 02 Feb 2015
Posts: 8



PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So just to clarify and update... I was trying to get away from the 1080i do to the aweful scan lines. They bug the craps out of me. So the dish cod was the answer. A tech is supposed to call me but 1080p24 is what they have to offer as far as 1080p here in Colorado. So I just put that issue on the back burner. However, I went to the local best buy and the local wal Mart. Most blu ray players are being labeled as the new true cinema 24fps. The real cheap ones don't let ya turn that off. But the 90.00 dollar ones do. So I am running a 1080p60 source now for movies. It still seems like it could be sharper and brighter so I'm looking into that now. Maybe I will try resetting the set up and set all at 128 zero and do the step by step set up again. I do need help understanding the gains and gamma and contrast though. Just to make sure I'm setting things up for the best picture and brightness. You all are awesome here. Thanks for all your help. Wish I could buy ya a beer. Lol.
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km987654




Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2852
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
Ill suggest you forget all these old scalers/ processors, and spend some money on a new OPPO player like the 103 or 103D.

Who have HDMI input, and will scale and deinterlace what you feed it.

Its a better scaler and deinterlacer than any of these scalers from lumagen or DVDO.

It dont have all the advanced timing features but will allow all standard resolutions in and run 1080P 50 and 60hz out, keeping your setup nice simple and high quality.


Are you serious Question You mean that Lumagen can't produce a better image than a scaler in a BD player. I know Oppo are an excellent machine but really? Or are you saying is better than the older scalers only?
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john t




Joined: 02 Feb 2015
Posts: 8



PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If its better than why isn't everyone using those instead. And how could lumagen and dvdo charge so much for an inferior product?
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km987654




Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2852
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john t wrote:
If its better than why isn't everyone using those instead. And how could lumagen and dvdo charge so much for an inferior product?


Lumagen PRO HDP and HDQ work very well and will certainly input 1080p/24 and output 1080p/60. Lumagen PRO HDP and HDQ also allows timing adjustments so essentially it doesn't matter too much which CRT projector you plug it into you can configure for a great image full stop (period in the US). No question. Those two processors were probable best suited to CRT since they both provide RGBHV output as well as DVI (DVI output will connect to a HDMI input, no sound, with the right cable).
You can even output 1080p/60 via RGBHV as long as you have a HDCP stripper in the chain.
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

km987654 wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
Ill suggest you forget all these old scalers/ processors, and spend some money on a new OPPO player like the 103 or 103D.

Who have HDMI input, and will scale and deinterlace what you feed it.

Its a better scaler and deinterlacer than any of these scalers from lumagen or DVDO.

It dont have all the advanced timing features but will allow all standard resolutions in and run 1080P 50 and 60hz out, keeping your setup nice simple and high quality.


Are you serious Question You mean that Lumagen can't produce a better image than a scaler in a BD player. I know Oppo are an excellent machine but really? Or are you saying is better than the older scalers only?


Yes i think the new OPPO 103D is both a better scaler and deinterlacer than any of the processors i have here.

I did run my Denon DVD A1XVA 576P HDMI out to my Radiance XS+ for quite some time, but when i got the OPPO 103D i just got a overall better DVD upscaling, less artifacts, and more pop.

I also use my OPPO to upscale Laserdisc now, using my Crystalio II as comb filter and deinterlacer, its send out 720P but with 1:1 pixelmapping, it alows me to shift the image from side to side, inside the resolution out of the Crystalio, correcting for the phase shift problem in the OPPO player.
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The strong point of the lumagen is its CMS. It allows the user to get a perfect grey scale with out having to deal with other unorthodox methods( like Circuit modifications) to get that. It also has so many other features that the Oppo does not have.

Oppo's do make the best Blu Ray players in the world So having that in your system is just an added bonus.

John, Kurt is a true Videophile. He loves to test all sorts of equipment and do things 90% of consumers do not care about.

I appreciate his efforts but some of his advice might push new CRT owners away from the hobby and go digital. Most just want an inexpensive way to get a great image, The G90 is a world class PJ and with the help of People like Craig, Curt, Dragan and others here you should get to what you want. CRT has a longer learning curve than digital but its worth the effort.

Athanasios

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can filter the tech speak out and give it to you strait up. If there's something you don't understand just ask.

I agree the Oppo is an astounding player. BUT if your on a budget right now after buying the G90, watch eBay for a Lumagen scaler.

Go with a Bluray player that can give you 1080p 60 output. You may have to get a slightly older model to do that. Don't go too old or it will have issues reading the new copy protections that they encode the disks with to annoy consumers.
OR
Get the scaler and grab a cheap player that will do 1080p/24. Both combinations will do what you need.

You already have 2 of the things you need. A G90 and a Moome card. Now concentrate on the setup.

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CIR Engineering




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PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't seen any BD player yet that can do 1080p 24Hz and not 1080p 60Hz. Maybe there are players out there that only do 1080p 24Hz, but I haven't seen them. 1080p 24Hz is considered an added feature to regular 1080p 60Hz.

I think Kurt's idea of using the Oppo as a scaler for dish is a good one. It will be easy to setup because everything in the system will run 1080p 60Hz so the G90 will only need one scan rate.

That being said, even the old Lumagen's have their proprietary "ring free scaling" which is excellent. I'm not sure if I agree that the old Lumagen's versus the new Oppo's give the Oppo the advantage in video quality. I think the two look different so if you want to examine them with a fine toothed comb than you will see differences, but I don't know which is better.

The Lumagen will add a tremendous level of complexity to your system. This is both good and bad because the complexity brings incredible features, but at the price of a steep learning curve. I don't think it's going to be very fun to be learning the G90 setup and Lumagen setup at the same time. I also think you could wind up with a worse image because you may have trouble know and deciding what settings to use in the Lumagen and what settings in the G90 to optimize the image. The other thing is that the older Lumagen's using DVI are more finicky with the digital signal. Consumer grade digital signal chains were very immature at the time and there was always loads of issues with DVI and signal integrity that can make setting up a system very frustrating to say the least.

The other thing is that you will most likely want to own an Oppo in the future anyway because it gives the best BD image, plays media files well, and is the highest quality streamer for Netflix and the like. What I would do if I were you is buy an Oppo 103D now and use if for BD and upsampling DISH and other sources. Then when you feel comfortable with the G90 buy an older Lumagen if you can't afford one of the newer Radiance models.

No matter what projector you are using I would always say you should get an Oppo. This is true for digital or CRT projectors because it's the reference standard. Just be sure to buy a "D" model because the video section hardware is better than the non "D" models and it's worth the $100 difference. Shoot me an email if you have questions about the Oppo's and I will be happy to answer them.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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