CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

**kal** · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:41 am Post subject:

Same reason as stated above: Lack of interest. The Marquee cards simply do not sell as well as the other cards.

Kal

digitalayon · Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Posts: 921

Moome has to take into account that there are not very many marquee 9500's and 8500's floating around as much as there used to be.

**kal** · Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:24 pm Post subject:

Not so much how many are around but completely about how well they sell. He has them made in big batches to reduce the cost and doesn't want to get stuck with a bunch of stock left over. The previous batch took forever to sell out, so once it was all gone he had no interest in making another batch right away or a much smaller batch (which would drive the price right up).

Kal

digitalayon · Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Posts: 921

makes sense.....but I do not see many units available either except from Curt....although I did see one a few weeks back on the buy and sell.....I think Curt was angry. But between Moome and MP, without them this hobby would not exist for me really. Perhaps the same for others. Curt and you(Kal) have been great as well. But there are some like Eisermann that can give the hobby a bad name.

maf · Joined: 29 Dec 2010 Posts: 27

Just got an email from Moome saying my HDMI cards shipped. So those who have been holding out get yours now. This last batch he did was a small one.

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

4K on CRT is a fantasy, a fantasy I enjoy thinking about, but the technical obstacles involved in making any CRT projector do justice to 4K are considerable.

I'd buy an HDMI 2.0 input card for a Marquee if the price wasn't insane, even knowing full well that it would be (probably) impossible to make the most of it, nonetheless.

You need about 600 MHz of clean bandwidth to FULLY resolve 4K. You need a H. scan rate of about 130 KHz as well.

Cathode capacitance is a limiting factor on the bandwidth capacity of the CRT. There may simply be too much capacitance for 4K,
even if you could focus the electron beam with enough precision to give a useful MTF value on a 3140x2160 raster, and finally, I'm not even sure if the phosphor grain is sufficiently fine to fully resolve it.

And then there's the matter of optics: If we assume that the maximized raster is 75 mm tall, or about 3 inches, (widescreen format image) on the CRT face, then you've got to stuff 2160 lines (1130 pairs) into 225 millimeters. Working the math,
and knowing that the HD10GT17 lenses are rated to resolve 12 line pairs per millimeter, what's 12 times 75? It's 900.

We can resolve 900 line pairs over a 75 mm tall raster on the CRT face but we need 1130. We'd need lenses that resolve 15 line pairs per millimeter, and we don't have it. BUT...it's probably close enough.

I'd tentatively say that the GT17 lenses would work, but they're marginal. They'd make it if you used the full raster height, but then you wouldn't have a widescreen formatted image unless you used anamorphic lenses, and who wants to buy three of those at 10K per lens, not counting modification costs?

4K is simply asking too much of any existing CRT platform. To make that work, a new machine would have to be custom designed and built, and we all know it's not going to happen.

If your fantasy is to see 4K via CRT, then you CAN do it, right now, by stacking 4 Marquees in a 2x2 array and blending. I'd like to see that, but I don't have any plans to build it.

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

To extend upon my post above, actually there are some 9" machines that have enough resolution capacity over and above 1080p that it'd be worth having an HDMI 1.4 or 2.0 input in order to at least view downsampled 4K material that is still well above 1080p.

In a very few cases, there actually is potential for a CRT projector to resolve 4K. The Barco Cine 9 can almost do it right out of the box. Its max rated H resolution is almost enough, its max rated V resolution is more than needed. Still a bit short on bandwidth, though.

All top gun 9 inchers should be able to handle the scan rates involved, up to 60 Hz refresh rate or maybe more.

LUG tubes, well, that's what the Cine 9 uses. And they're pretty close to good enough for 4K.

Video chains can be modded, bandwidth can be extended. The HDMI 2.0 data stream maxes out at 297 MHz and it stands to reason that if you have
300 MHz of clean video bandwidth, you MAY have enough, depending on the encoded refresh rate. There is a problem there, because I believe the 2K refresh rate
is 24 FPS. Which is unwatchable on a CRT. We need twice that at the very minimum. But at around a 3K display resolution, which would certainly be worth watching, the pixel count and bandwidth requirement is halved and now we're back in the game.

Really the toughest obstacle is to tickle RGB signals out of an HDMI 1.4 or 2.0 data stream. The rest is all just engineering.

CIR Engineering · Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:26 am Post subject:

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

I'm surprised that Moome isn't (described as) working on an HDMI 2.0 input for Marquees. Last I heard, and this should certainly still be true becaue Marquees were made longer and in larger numbers than any other CRT projector, Marquees are still the most common CRT projector in the home theatre hobby.

So they should sell the most Marquee HDMI input cards, right?

I wonder why that hasn't happened.

Since I got one, there's never been any reason to use anything else. In fact I will most likely buy another one since I have now bought another 9500LC from a friend, for peanuts. One of them will be my test mule for me to run my Lexel 9" custom CRT set in.

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands

How do you know he is not working on one? Have you asked? I know he is working on a Barco version with Francisco.

If Moome reads this I am interested too. I guess we have a better chance in the Moome forum.

CIR Engineering · Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:02 pm Post subject:

The Sony and Marquee cards are virtually the same with different pinouts and slight differences between the analog sections. I would not be surprised if a Marquee version will emerge shortly after the Sony version assuming we get one at all.

For whatever reason, more people are willing to spend money on Sony and Barco projectors than Marquee projectors in general. I have seen this trend personally over the past ten years. The number of Marquee CRT projectors I maintain has gone down and plummeted over the past two years. The number of G90 and Barco projectors I maintain continues to increase (though at a slower rate than in the past).

I've hear from Curt that G90 and 9" Barco projectors sell much better than Marquee projectors. I have also heard from Moome that sales of the Marquee VIM cards have not been good while Sony VIM cards have sold continuously. This is why Moome stopped production of the Marquee VIM for a while and only started again once he knew there were people who actually would buy them.

It seems to me that the fact that there are far more Marquee projectors in service has lead to this phenomena. IMHO Marquee owners tend more often to be "dumpster divers" and tend to want to keep the budget for their projectors lower than Sony of Barco owners. I see first hand that Marquee owners are much less willing to open up their wallets for hardware and calibration services. I am not saying there are no Marquee owners out there willing to spend money on their projectors, just less than Sony and Barco.

I'm not bashing Marquee or owners. I'm just pointing out my observations.

I would also think that Moome will probably come up with an EXT version with HDMI 2.2 and HDCP 2.2.

craigr

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

That does make sense. If the cost of entry is low enough, people who can't afford the more expensive units can buy the lower cost units, but may not be able to afford to spring for calibrations, mods, etc. Even though the unit they bought was originally just as expensive as the higher cost units being offered today.

I see that in the Porsche world. First generation Boxsters, due to a potentially fatal (to the engine) design defect, can be had for absurdly low prices for such an (originally) expensive, high performance car, but people who are buying them because "Finally, there's one I can afford on my measly paycheck!" flinch when they discover than an oil change is 100 dollars and the cost of routine PM services runs at least 500 dollars. So they don't give the cars the maintenance they really should be getting.

GREG1292 · Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 417 Location: indiana

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

If Moome doesn't make a Marquee specific HDMI 1.4 or greater card, I'll get the Sony card and rework it to run on a Marquee.

I definitely want to TRY for 4K.

GREG1292 · Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 417 Location: indiana

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands

No arguing with true believers Very Happy

Glad you are happy Wink

GREG1292 · Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 417 Location: indiana

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

Red, to my point of view you're all horn and no driveshaft. You're being critical without presenting any objective evidence that you have created anything better than what you're criticizing.

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands

Yes I knew that remark is difficult to understand. Just forget it. To my opinion Greg has been brainwashed that is how he sounds. The g90 has no depth. That is a subjective measure that only a small cult of guys hold true and it is utter bs to the rest of the world. But I will not argue such a statement unless forced to Very Happy

Halelujah only Marquee has the magic! (Irony)