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Ecrabb's Theater v2
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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greg_mitch wrote:
Hey Steve - what are you using for your floor plan design software?

I haven't used sketchup in awhile (besides flying through architectural renderings) and wasn't sure if there was some easy software available with walls, furniture, doors, etc. already prepopulated.


I'm just using Adobe Illustrator w/a 1"=1' scale, with a keyboard increment set to 1". I just use it because it's super-fast for me while I'm getting things roughed out in 2D. Once I get things a little more fleshed out, I'll start working in SketchUp so I can start getting a feel for the space, how the soffits hiding HVAC ducting will impact the rooms, playing with columns, etc. I'm just about there.

Interesting side-note on why I'm so comfortable with Illustrator... I've been using Illlustrator since I was 17 years old - the spring Illustrator first came out in 1987. I was finishing my junior in high school, and had my first real job at a computer store. We had an Apple LaserWriter and the first Macintosh II "graphics workstation". It had an 40MB hard drive (when most other computers had 1-10MB drives, 16MB of memory (when most others had 1MB), a video card with 24-bit color running 640x480, displaying on a beautiful matching Apple 13" Sony Trinitron monitor. That was a crazy-advanced computer for those days. I think between the Mac II, color monitor, RAM, video card, LaserWriter, and software, it was about a $25,000 setup. A new Ford Mustang was about $10k back then. CRAZY! I came in early and stayed late whenever I could so I could learn Illustrator, and I played to learn whenever there were no customers or I didn't have any other pressing work to be done. Good times!

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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
Is this an empty unfinished basement?

Yes, totally empty, clean slate. You can see in the first plan I posted - "existing basement" - exactly how the basement sits today. The only thing the plan doesn't show is the piles of crap that need to get cleaned up. Wink

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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any comments on the wall assembly or my decision on whether to use clips and channel or not? Wink

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jbmeyer13



Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1131



PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Any comments on the wall assembly or my decision on whether to use clips and channel or not? Wink

SC

My only comment is that you need to hang a big 9" CRT in there instead of some silly digital Laughing

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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jbmeyer13 wrote:
ecrabb wrote:
Any comments on the wall assembly or my decision on whether to use clips and channel or not? Wink

My only comment is that you need to hang a big 9" CRT in there instead of some silly digital Laughing


I appreciate you cheerleading for the team, brother... But, I done moved on. After seeing awesome home theaters with big AT scope screens and big main speakers behind the screen, I started feeling the same magic I felt when I first got into home theater. With this room, I'll have a big scope screen - at least 10 feet wide. The big AT scope screen one of two things I really, really want in this room. The only way to do that screen justice with CRT is a stack or blend. I'm moving all my equipment out of the room because I want a dead-quiet noise floor. Basically, there's no way in hell two CRT's are going in this room. Wink

Appreciate the input though, Justin. Wink

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jbmeyer13



Joined: 03 Dec 2010
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
jbmeyer13 wrote:
ecrabb wrote:
Any comments on the wall assembly or my decision on whether to use clips and channel or not? Wink

My only comment is that you need to hang a big 9" CRT in there instead of some silly digital Laughing


I appreciate you cheerleading for the team, brother... But, I done moved on. After seeing awesome home theaters with big AT scope screens and big main speakers behind the screen, I started feeling the same magic I felt when I first got into home theater. With this room, I'll have a big scope screen - at least 10 feet wide. The big AT scope screen one of two things I really, really want in this room. The only way to do that screen justice with CRT is a stack or blend. I'm moving all my equipment out of the room because I want a dead-quiet noise floor. Basically, there's no way in hell two CRT's are going in this room. Wink

Appreciate the input though, Justin. Wink

SC


You know i'm just messing with you. I have a 4-way masking At screen so i know the appeal. Are you planning to use another Jvc? I personally would never mess with a stack or blend. However, i would love to see a 10' wide torus.

You are way more about the audio anyway. My guess is you will change a lot of things before you get even close to finalizing it. Twisted Evil

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greg_mitch



Joined: 03 May 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Any comments on the wall assembly or my decision on whether to use clips and channel or not? Wink

SC


I would tend to lean on people with construction experience in your area. For many reasons, opinions appear to vary greatly when discussing below grade wall details. Following the MFR never hurts either.

Regarding the clips and channels, my thoughts were always toward considering the actual usage of the space. When I first started to conceive of my theater I was all on board with sound protection (and still am in some ways). In practicality the theater was only ever used when everyone was willing to go spend a few hours down there. If everyone in the house is in the room, does it really need to be sound isolated?

Do you really plan to have long night sessions with sleeping family members? You might, I never have/did besides the handful of times I can count on one hand. It didn't seem worth the trouble/expense.

The integrity gasket & green glue seems like a good compromise and many have done it (yourself & Cliff I believe) with success. Is this going to be a spare no expense, time not an issue build? If so go with clips and hat channels.

Just my two pennies.

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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No clips. I have some different ideas. I will call you, if you pick up the phone. Wink
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
No clips. I have some different ideas. I will call you, if you pick up the phone. Wink

Geez, I don't pick up once or twice, and now it's some kind of chronic problem! Twisted Evil

Wife and kids will be back at work and school next week, and I'll just be working at my desk, so call me anytime... Well, anytime after 11am eastern. Wink

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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jbmeyer13 wrote:
You know i'm just messing with you. I have a 4-way masking At screen so i know the appeal. Are you planning to use another Jvc? I personally would never mess with a stack or blend. However, i would love to see a 10' wide torus.

Yeah, I'm just messing with you, too. LOVE masking. Would love to be able to manipulate horizontal masking, play some 1.85 trailers, then open the masking and switch the AR to scope. Gets me all excited just thinking about it. Wink

Probably going with an RS-56 or maybe even a 4910. Not sure yet. I was even toying around with stacking digitals - older JVCs like my old RS45. Seems like they're under $1500 when they're for sale, so I could buy two RS45's for less than one newer eShift. I have an idea for a mount I could easily fabricate for fine adjustment of convergence, but I'm still not sure with variations in lenses, mechanical slop in the lens shift mechanism, etc. that I could ever get them converged and have them stay day-to-day. I'd been thinking about it for some time, and then Mark Seaton and I started talking about doing it for his demo at AXPONA on a really big screen, and that's what really got me thinking, but that only needs to stay converged for three days, and who cares if you have to tweek a couple of times a day. If it would work, I could do a 12 foot wide 1.1 screen with both projectors in eco mode, then just open up the irises as the lamps age. Or be able to do passive 3D. I don't know - just kicking it around at this point.

jbmeyer13 wrote:
You are way more about the audio anyway. My guess is you will change a lot of things before you get even close to finalizing it. Twisted Evil

Definitely not "way more about the audio", but the audio is much more important to me than it is to some here. I'd say both picture and sound are equally important to me - I just want it all - that's all. Wink

No doubt I'll go through several iterations of which projector, in what configuration. But, I want a big screen, and I think I want to be able to 3D, so that is somewhat limiting.

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ecrabb
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TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg_mitch wrote:
I would tend to lean on people with construction experience in your area. For many reasons, opinions appear to vary greatly when discussing below grade wall details. Following the MFR never hurts either.

I'll definitely look into local convention, code, and manufacturer info. Just wanted to see if anybody had recently been through it that may have some input. It does make me feel a little better being in this arid climate, and on a mountain in pretty dry soil - at least I don't have to worry so much about the water intrusion issues like I did in Iowa. Debating about doing a sub-floor to use some hardwood and/or have warmer and more comfortable tile. Looks like a pretty big expense with the square footage I have to do - a couple grand.

greg_mitch wrote:
Regarding the clips and channels, my thoughts were always toward considering the actual usage of the space. When I first started to conceive of my theater I was all on board with sound protection (and still am in some ways). In practicality the theater was only ever used when everyone was willing to go spend a few hours down there. If everyone in the house is in the room, does it really need to be sound isolated?

Do you really plan to have long night sessions with sleeping family members? You might, I never have/did besides the handful of times I can count on one hand. It didn't seem worth the trouble/expense.

Totally agree that the design and materials should meet goals appropriate for the intended use. Sounds like you use your room a little differently than we use ours. Ours has always been about 1/2 family time or kids alone (or with friends), and 1/2 my wife and me. We typically watch after kids are in bed. Plus, about once a week, I watch a move or play a game by myself when my wife is in bed either sleeping or watching TV. So, some level of isolation is important. Just debating how far I want to take it.

greg_mitch wrote:
The integrity gasket & green glue seems like a good compromise and many have done it (yourself & Cliff I believe) with success. Is this going to be a spare no expense, time not an issue build? If so go with clips and hat channels.

Definitely not a spare-no-expense build. I want to do it right, but I don't want to blow the budget or spend a year working on it. I'd like to have whole basement finished inside of 6-8 months, and have money left over for other toys. Wink I'm thinking a compromise might be the ticket. Double-drywall, Green Glue, and Integrity Gasket on the walls, and clips and channel on the ceiling to avoid the impact sound issue from the kitchen tile and dishwasher directly above the theater - almost above my seating position. Might have to do some isolation on the dishwasher, too - I do NOT want to hear the drone of the dishwasher when I'm trying to watch a movie.

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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Spanky Ham wrote:
No clips. I have some different ideas. I will call you, if you pick up the phone. Wink

Geez, I don't pick up once or twice, and now it's some kind of chronic problem! Twisted Evil

Wife and kids will be back at work and school next week, and I'll just be working at my desk, so call me anytime... Well, anytime after 11am eastern. Wink

SC


I don't wake up till noon. Mr. Green
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
I don't wake up till noon. Mr. Green


Slacker!!!














10 my time is perfect. Wink

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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't apologize for who I am! Mr. Green

Somtimes when I call my best friend, he will be whispering. When I say speak up, he will reply with my wife is still in bed. I will double check the time and be like "Ummm, it is like 11 your time." Rolling Eyes

I usually don't turn my phone on till after 9 and sometimes 10. I know that probably pissses people off, but I don't care. Man, I really hate my job. Mad
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mentioned to Steve yesterday that he should go with a drop drywall ceiling like Armstrong. The best would be to separate the ceiling from the floor joists, but I don't think that would be easily done or inexpensive.

http://www.armstrong.com/commceilingsna/grid-data.jsp?productLineId=59&itemId=137602
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
I mentioned to Steve yesterday that he should go with a drop drywall ceiling like Armstrong. The best would be to separate the ceiling from the floor joists, but I don't think that would be easily done or inexpensive.

http://www.armstrong.com/commceilingsna/grid-data.jsp?productLineId=59&itemId=137602


Thanks, Spanky! I checked out the links, and that's actually a fairly complex system. It appears to be a system that experienced contractors mostly use, mostly in commercial, or heavy residential construction I'd guess. I'm not sure if it would be so suitable for a zero-experience DIYer, since even just the list of different parts for different site conditions is pretty bewildering.

I'm going to do some reading, but I think the RSIC clips and resilient channel on the ceiling may not be so difficult or expensive after all. According to this chart, I'll need right around 90 RSIC clips, and the channel, which will add probably $750 or so over doing nothing to the ceiling at all. Just putting Integrity Gasket on the ceiling alone would cost $150 or so, but that wasn't adequate in my last room, so the ceiling needs something.

More thinking... What a pain in the ass. This is a lot of work just to watch movies. Wink

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Spanky Ham



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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could see that. This is what I was thinking would be the best. Still not sure how to do it.


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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, in that drawing, they're showing a typical commercial scenario where you have say a 12-foot unfinished floor-to-floor height, and then dropping a finished ceiling down at 9 or 10 feet, leaving a 2-3-foot chase above the finished ceiling for HVAC ducting, electrical conduit, fire suppression, low-voltage cabling, etc. The ceiling joists are connected to the walls, hung from the structure above in the middle of the span per spec, and they joists are light metal because all they're holding up is a layer of drywall (or two) at 2-5 lbs/square foot. Compare that to a floor joist that's designed to safely handle 50 lbs/square foot of static and live load. That does give you pretty good isolation from the floor above, but at a cost of 4 inches of headroom. There's probably a good reason we've never seen that method employed in any home theaters on AVS.

I'm guessing the cost of the underlying structure wouldn't be that much less than RSIC clips - say $375 vs $750 - so, it probably does' make a lot of sense to try to cut corners there. That's my guess, anyway. I'll do some poking around on AVS and see if I can find any threads where anybody's done anything different than what we're all accustomed to seeing.

I'm still not sure what to do about all my soffit to contain all the ducting, or how to deal with all that. I'm assuming I'll need some sort of isolation clips on which to hang the framing for the soffit, then attach all the drywall to that. Not sure, though. More reading. Fun, fun.

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WanMan



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PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
jbmeyer13 wrote:
ecrabb wrote:
Any comments on the wall assembly or my decision on whether to use clips and channel or not? Wink

My only comment is that you need to hang a big 9" CRT in there instead of some silly digital Laughing


I appreciate you cheerleading for the team, brother... But, I done moved on. After seeing awesome home theaters with big AT scope screens and big main speakers behind the screen, I started feeling the same magic I felt when I first got into home theater. With this room, I'll have a big scope screen - at least 10 feet wide. The big AT scope screen one of two things I really, really want in this room. The only way to do that screen justice with CRT is a stack or blend. I'm moving all my equipment out of the room because I want a dead-quiet noise floor. Basically, there's no way in hell two CRT's are going in this room. Wink

Appreciate the input though, Justin. Wink

SC


I agree with the benefits and experience in using an AT screen. Been doing this for about five years now and love it. The 10' wide scope screen I'm using leave about a foot on the L/R sides, but in the darkness of movie-watching you cannot really see anything on the sides. I use a black vevet skirt underneath and it works really well.

I do not think I could ever go back to an non-AT screen.

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
ecrabb wrote:
jbmeyer13 wrote:
ecrabb wrote:
Any comments on the wall assembly or my decision on whether to use clips and channel or not? Wink

My only comment is that you need to hang a big 9" CRT in there instead of some silly digital Laughing


I appreciate you cheerleading for the team, brother... But, I done moved on. After seeing awesome home theaters with big AT scope screens and big main speakers behind the screen, I started feeling the same magic I felt when I first got into home theater. With this room, I'll have a big scope screen - at least 10 feet wide. The big AT scope screen one of two things I really, really want in this room. The only way to do that screen justice with CRT is a stack or blend. I'm moving all my equipment out of the room because I want a dead-quiet noise floor. Basically, there's no way in hell two CRT's are going in this room. Wink

Appreciate the input though, Justin. Wink

SC


I agree with the benefits and experience in using an AT screen. Been doing this for about five years now and love it. The 10' wide scope screen I'm using leave about a foot on the L/R sides, but in the darkness of movie-watching you cannot really see anything on the sides. I use a black vevet skirt underneath and it works really well.

I do not think I could ever go back to an non-AT screen.


WanMan! We thought you died! Laughing

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