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'Greyscale & Colour Calibration for Dummies' Q/A thread
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Samsungfan



Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Ah ha I see. So the software in your guide is specific for just those spyder or the eyeone models, i gotcha. Im not going to venture an inch from your guide so I will just have to use them!

perhaps those reviewers on amazon are from people who didnt have a guide like yours to follow lol

thank you!
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Samsungfan



Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Kal,

I just got my Eye-one LT off ebay and ran through your guide. My TV looks 100% better. thank you so much for such an awesome guide, it really made a world of difference.

I had just a few quick questions if you get a second, as i am going to going to try attempting a few more calibrations to see if i can get my stats even better.

1) When dialing in the contrast for my plasma you list the target range for the ftL as anywhere from 30-40ftLs. Should i aim for exactly 30ftLs if i use my plasma only in a dark room? or visa versa should i set it at exactly 40ffLs if i primarily use it in a light room? Im not entirely sure how to consider that number or what to do with it....i set mine at 35 in the middle until i could figure out what i should shoot for. (plasmas seem to look terrible in well lit rooms or rooms with windows anyway so this might be a mute point)

2) I included my stats as an attachment, and i think i did alright for the first time around. The IRE levels of 0 10 and 20 are terrrrrrible though and i cant hit a Gamma of 2.2. i know in your guide you mention they are very difficult to get right. So i was wondering if there were perhaps any options in my menu that i might have access to to boost my chances at getting good x and y readings in the 0 10 or 20 range as well as get my gamma up to 2.2 without buying anymore hardware.

settings such as:
Dynamic contrast
Black tone (off, dark, darker, darkest)
Color Tone
digital noise filter
HDMI black level
Flesh tone
Gamma
Color space

What should i set these at before i attempt the next calibration???

Im going to mess around with the settings as i attempt new calibrations, but I definitely wanted to get your opinion.

thanks again so much!!!
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15653
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsungfan wrote:
1) When dialing in the contrast for my plasma you list the target range for the ftL as anywhere from 30-40ftLs. Should i aim for exactly 30ftLs if i use my plasma only in a dark room? or visa versa should i set it at exactly 40ffLs if i primarily use it in a light room?

Personal preference and room/lighting will have an effect. That's why there's a range. Try both extremes and even in the middle for a while and see what you prefer.

Quote:
2) I included my stats as an attachment, and i think i did alright for the first time around. The IRE levels of 0 10 and 20 are terrrrrrible though and i cant hit a Gamma of 2.2. i know in your guide you mention they are very difficult to get right. So i was wondering if there were perhaps any options in my menu that i might have access to to boost my chances at getting good x and y readings in the 0 10 or 20 range as well as get my gamma up to 2.2 without buying anymore hardware.

settings such as:
Dynamic contrast
Black tone (off, dark, darker, darkest)
Color Tone
digital noise filter
HDMI black level
Flesh tone
Gamma
Color space

What should i set these at before i attempt the next calibration???

I can't really help with this. Every display has different controls, every control does something different, different controls interact differently on every display type. Without sitting down with that model and trying all the controls to see what they do and how they interact, it's hard to give suggestions.

Keep in mind that it may not only be hard to get things perfect, it may be impossible. Not all displays can be made perfect because of the technology used. Even if the technology used could be made perfect, the display may not have provided the controls to even get there.

This is why people (even with very expensive projectors or displays) will sometimes use an external video processor like the Radiance (link: http://www.curtpalme.com/Radiance.shtm) to get things closer (note that I didn't say 'perfect'). It does things like 20-point gamma instead the 1 point you may have in your display. It's basically impossible to get gamma right all the way from black to white with only 1 control. Same reason it's impossible to get greyscale right from black to white with only 2 controls. You most likely need 10-20 points to do things 100% right.

Then there's the whole inside gamut that is often not right either but we often don't know as we don't measure it, and until recently there was no way to adjust it since adjusting hundreds of points would take days. (Link: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32073)

So just keep in mind that perfection isn't always attainable. You have to know when you've done as well as you can do using the equipment you have.

Good luck!

Kal

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Samsungfan



Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 5



PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally understand. I will have to play around and experiment to see how close i can get things!

Thanks again Kal for everything. Your guide was amazing, and only having to spend 100$ for the hardware necessary to do all of this was just a fantastic deal.

thanks again so much and have a great day!
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fragzero



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got myself an i1 display pro sensor + the latest HCFR build.

Spend 4 hours yesterday trying to get things right with Kal's guide.

What i did

- reset all RGBLowEnd and RGBHighend
- i disabled all the other adjustements
Blue gamma slope: 0
Blue breakpoint: 99
Red midlights: 0
Blue midlights: 0
- focussed blue

A reading at this level gives me

Luminance green is below the reference, red is a little above the line
RGB levels blue is below all the other levels, i have a bump but it's not nearly as big as yours Kal.
General gamma is around 2.4

I can get blue and green closer to the luminance and RGB reference but i have a hard time adjusting green. I'm not very sure how i can move green closer to the luminance line.

And how can i influence green gamma? I could add green gamma with my vp50 pro. Haven't tried it yet since.

My Current Best
Gamma


As you can see green is too low all the way, the others aren't flat.

Luminance


Green too low, in this case the others actually are quite flat! I haven't adjusted the gamma boost feature of my RTC2200 yet so i can probably boost the low end area and get better tracking.
RGB-Levels


I still have a little bump in blue but i should be able to fix this with more careful Blue gamma slope and Blue breakpoint control.

Any tips how to get green gamma where it should be? Everything below 30 seems strange but i doubt the readings are very accurate!
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clenfant



Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I have followed the guide to do some measurments, but I have an issue with the Y value (or Ftl).
Both x and y seems to be correctly captured (around 0.310 and 0.330 for all the grayscale) but the Y capture is far too low :
from 0.002 at 10IRE to 0.248 at 100IRE (so Ftl from 0.001 at 10IRE to 0.072 at 100 IRE).

Of course, this is not reflecting the reallity of my image, that is almost too bright (Panasonic AE8000, lamp in Normal mode).

Isn't there a scale issue, a matrix issue, or something like this ?
I have attached the measurments results if this can help.

PS : Your guide is really great !

Regards,
Cyriaque
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15653
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fragzero wrote:
And how can i influence green gamma? I could add green gamma with my vp50 pro. Haven't tried it yet since.

Any tips how to get green gamma where it should be? Everything below 30 seems strange but i doubt the readings are very accurate!


Nope. Sorry. Without actually seeing what's going on and using the equipement you mention, it's fairly difficult to make suggestions. You mention you had things you still wanted to try or things you haven't tried yet, so go for it. Part of doing calibration with tools like ColorHCFR which gives absolutely no hints or help, is having to figure things out for yourself.

clenfant wrote:
I have followed the guide to do some measurments, but I have an issue with the Y value (or Ftl).

I do not know what could cause causing this.

Kal

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ozon



Joined: 11 Feb 2013
Posts: 1
Location: hills of sauerland


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have bought a Panasonic 65STW50 (ST50) and have issues with very yellow-tint skin colors. If these yellow skin colors are are just a psychological thing my mind makes up I want to find out.

I am using HCFR 3.0.4 and Spyder4Express. The calibration of the grayscale was relatively easy. It now shows around 3, before around 8.

What I really can't work out is the color calibration (Hue, saturation and Luminance). The delta E for red and green show around 12. Can these figures cause the yellow tint of skin colors?

If I follow the tutorial I have to set the red luminance 21% of white luminance. Afterwards I set the hue and saturation bars in order to match 0,64 and 0,33. The actual measurements are very close to these figures in the first place. It is sugesting very little changes. But after the changings deltaE is even larger?

Maybe deltaE shows something which is not of interrest for me?

I have tested with AVCHD 709 100% Color APL and Window pattern.

For any mistake I am very sorry, english ain't no first language.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15653
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozon: I would suggest you start a new thread and post your graphs. Please see the first post of this thread. This thread is for questions/comments about the usage of the guide, not for feedback on how to calibrate your display. If everyone posted questions on how to calibrate their display this thread would be impossible to follow.

Kal

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Seamonster



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal,

Regarding the comment in the guide about the EyeOne needing to warm up when placed on plasma displays, would there be any benefit in putting some sort of 'spacer' (e.g. a couple of small rubber pads) between the light meter and the plasma screen surface? As in, would it still give the same measurements in a completely darkened room, while removing the possibility of temp changes affecting the readings?

Also, a couple of days ago I tried to calibrate may parents new TV using HFCR on my Macbook. The problem is that the Mac version of HFCR lacks the ftL measurements of the PC version (or at least i couldn't find it). As such, is there a way I can calculate the equivalent ftL value from the xyY values at all? Is there a formula I could use?


Apart from that, just wanted to echo what many others have said - I've used the guide a couple of times now, and it's fantastic. Thanks for your effort on this.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15653
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seamonster wrote:
Regarding the comment in the guide about the EyeOne needing to warm up when placed on plasma displays, would there be any benefit in putting some sort of 'spacer' (e.g. a couple of small rubber pads) between the light meter and the plasma screen surface? As in, would it still give the same measurements in a completely darkened room, while removing the possibility of temp changes affecting the readings?

I've never tried it so I don't know. Plasma's put off enough heat that I think it would still get warm, just slower. If there's any space between the TV and the probe, other light may get in. Best to probablty just keep it up against the display and let it warm up with the display.

Quote:
Also, a couple of days ago I tried to calibrate may parents new TV using HFCR on my Macbook. The problem is that the Mac version of HFCR lacks the ftL measurements of the PC version (or at least i couldn't find it). As such, is there a way I can calculate the equivalent ftL value from the xyY values at all? Is there a formula I could use?

From what I remember the Y value is the cd/m2 reading (Candelas/Square Meter). You need a cd/m2 to ftL converter. Google "cd m2 to ftl converter". Here's one:

http://www.unitconversion.org/luminance/candelas-per-square-meter-to-foot-lamberts-conversion.html

Quote:
Apart from that, just wanted to echo what many others have said - I've used the guide a couple of times now, and it's fantastic. Thanks for your effort on this.

You're welcome. Happy calibrating!

Kal

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s162216



Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal,

For a bit of fun at the moment I am calibrating my old small bedroom direct view CRT (I've just never bothered to replace it as it does the job), and have a couple of what are probably quite basic questions.

I've been following the calibration guide provided on the forum, and am using a Spyder 2 sensor (I got it recently to calibrate my computer monitor as I do a lot of photography, but it does a quite decent job and its the best I can afford at the moment). I've discovered a couple of things about the TV (Toshiba VTV1416) such as it seems to lack a blue cutoff control in the service menu (but has drive controls for R, G and B), and it also has 'M R Cutoff', 'M G Cutoff' and 'M B Cutoff' controls.

Will it matter if it does not have a blue cutoff control? I was forced to reduce the Green cutoff a couple of years ago as the tube was obviously ageing and showed too much green, but will the lack of a blue control make it near impossible to calibrate the lower greyscale properly? I can always reset the green as the default value was 31 if I remember.

I assume that the other 'M' cutoff controls refer to a mid-blue, green etc? If so presumably its possible to use them to adjust the mid greyscale, but if so what window pattern should I use for measuring? IRE 50 perhaps 60?

Sorry if these are basic and simple questions, but I just want to make sure that I get it right. If anyone wants to see what I mean regarding the service menu controls, the service manual can be found here (look on page D3-1 and D3-3): http://diagramas.diagramasde.com/otros/Toshiba%20VTV1416%20TVCR.pdf

Thanks,

Sam
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thepiecesfit



Joined: 28 Nov 2014
Posts: 7



PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following this guide. Is it preferable to have a color balanced grayscale with sub 8 delta E or primary and secondary colors? The reason I ask is my display doesn't have controls outside of white balance. I can only set W/B high and low. I am able to get nice greyscale balance but my Magenta delta E is 16 and green is 13 all the other values are around 7. Would it be recommended to balance the primary and secondary colors over the other?
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15653
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

s162216 wrote:
Will it matter if it does not have a blue cutoff control? I was forced to reduce the Green cutoff a couple of years ago as the tube was obviously ageing and showed too much green, but will the lack of a blue control make it near impossible to calibrate the lower greyscale properly?

Try it and see. It's the only way to know.

Quote:
I assume that the other 'M' cutoff controls refer to a mid-blue, green etc?

No idea. That's a question for your TV manufacturer. This thread is for asking questions about the guide, not about how to calibrate your particular display. I would suggest starting your own thread and asking there. You'll possibly get more responses from owners of the same display as you.

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15653
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepiecesfit wrote:
Following this guide. Is it preferable to have a color balanced grayscale with sub 8 delta E or primary and secondary colors?

There's no black and white answer to questions where trade-offs are required. Try both, see which you prefer.

Kal

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've locked this thread as it was for questions/comments about the usage of the guide which is now defunct, and people kept posting about how to calibrate their particular display (not the topic of this thread). Anyone who has questions about calibrating their particular display should start a new thread. Thanks!

Kal

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