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Range expand 0-255

 
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Murillo




Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 109
Location: Sweden


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:41 pm    Post subject: Range expand 0-255 Reply with quote


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How do you set the range expand option on 16-235 or 0-255 and why? The 0-255 option will cut BTB and WTW but is it better to use this option regardless of the cutting effect?

I'm asking beacuse I have some problems setting the colours (not using any equipement only DVE).

Best regards.
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your source uses "video" levels (16-235) than you should use 16-235 for the Moome output. If your source uses "PC" levels 0-255 than you should use 0-255.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Murillo




Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 109
Location: Sweden


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a PC and noticed that there was something wrong.

Thank you for your reply.
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can set your PC to video levels than you can switch the card to 16-235. Also if your PC supports YCbCr 444 or 422 you should also switch the Moome card to 16-235 (YCbCr is always video levels).

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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stridsvognen
Guest








PostLink    Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
If you can set your PC to video levels than you can switch the card to 16-235. Also if your PC supports YCbCr 444 or 422 you should also switch the Moome card to 16-235 (YCbCr is always video levels).

craigr


Where do you correct the white and black levet when using the 16-235 setting on the moome card.?

Or do you just run it so it will display BTB and WTW.?
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question.

The Moome card can be set to support either 0-255 or 16-235. That's all really. Set the Moome card to match your source.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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stridsvognen
Guest








PostLink    Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question.

The Moome card can be set to support either 0-255 or 16-235. That's all really. Set the Moome card to match your source.

craigr


If you use a Radiance, and output 4:2:2 16-235 with no corection of any kind, and set the moome card to 16-235, the patterns will display whiter then white and blacker then black.. Where do you adjust it so that it will clip white and black correct.?

Or should the projector just be allowed to display whiter then white and blacker then black.?
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question.

The Moome card can be set to support either 0-255 or 16-235. That's all really. Set the Moome card to match your source.

craigr


If you use a Radiance, and output 4:2:2 16-235 with no corection of any kind, and set the moome card to 16-235, the patterns will display whiter then white and blacker then black.. Where do you adjust it so that it will clip white and black correct.?

Or should the projector just be allowed to display whiter then white and blacker then black.?

A CRT projector with a 16-235 digital input level should always be capable of displaying WTW and BTB. Of course, you will never see anything that is BTB if your brightness is set correctly. You should always be able to see WTW though.

Producers even sometimes use whites that are in the WTW range so you want to see that.

If you input 16-235 to the Moome card but have the card set to 0-255 this will crop off WTW and BTB, but it is wrong.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question.

The Moome card can be set to support either 0-255 or 16-235. That's all really. Set the Moome card to match your source.

craigr


If you use a Radiance, and output 4:2:2 16-235 with no corection of any kind, and set the moome card to 16-235, the patterns will display whiter then white and blacker then black.. Where do you adjust it so that it will clip white and black correct.?

Or should the projector just be allowed to display whiter then white and blacker then black.?

A CRT projector with a 16-235 digital input level should always be capable of displaying WTW and BTB. Of course, you will never see anything that is BTB if your brightness is set correctly. You should always be able to see WTW though.

Producers even sometimes use whites that are in the WTW range so you want to see that.

If you input 16-235 to the Moome card but have the card set to 0-255 this will crop off WTW and BTB, but it is wrong.

craigr


Then, if I use a PC I can select wether I want to send out the movie in 16-235 or 0-255, if I set it to 0-255 (that matches to the desktop and other program's output) means in reality that the "original film" black level which was at '16' is ofsetted to '0' or are there any conversions involved?

_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there are conversions and rounding errors. Video is best at its native range of 16-235.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

$1,000,000 question: how to achieve to look good both native PC content and film material if I want to preserve the original color coding of the movies?
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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View user's photo album (1 photos)
CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gjaky wrote:
$1,000,000 question: how to achieve to look good both native PC content and film material if I want to preserve the original color coding of the movies?

Well pretty much any content that you watch on your PC is actually video content (unless you are using your PC on your projector as a PC). So the PC be default is outputting video incorrectly. Best thing is to use a modern video card that can be set to YCbCr 422, YCbCr 444, or RGB at video levels 16-235.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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