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Murillo
Joined: 30 Dec 2007 Posts: 109 Location: Sweden
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Link Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:41 pm Post subject: Range expand 0-255 |
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How do you set the range expand option on 16-235 or 0-255 and why? The 0-255 option will cut BTB and WTW but is it better to use this option regardless of the cutting effect?
I'm asking beacuse I have some problems setting the colours (not using any equipement only DVE).
Best regards.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 2:35 am Post subject: |
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If your source uses "video" levels (16-235) than you should use 16-235 for the Moome output. If your source uses "PC" levels 0-255 than you should use 0-255.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
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Murillo
Joined: 30 Dec 2007 Posts: 109 Location: Sweden
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Link Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: |
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I use a PC and noticed that there was something wrong.
Thank you for your reply.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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If you can set your PC to video levels than you can switch the card to 16-235. Also if your PC supports YCbCr 444 or 422 you should also switch the Moome card to 16-235 (YCbCr is always video levels).
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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stridsvognen Guest
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Link Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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CIR Engineering wrote: | If you can set your PC to video levels than you can switch the card to 16-235. Also if your PC supports YCbCr 444 or 422 you should also switch the Moome card to 16-235 (YCbCr is always video levels).
craigr |
Where do you correct the white and black levet when using the 16-235 setting on the moome card.?
Or do you just run it so it will display BTB and WTW.?
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question.
The Moome card can be set to support either 0-255 or 16-235. That's all really. Set the Moome card to match your source.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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stridsvognen Guest
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Link Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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CIR Engineering wrote: | I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question.
The Moome card can be set to support either 0-255 or 16-235. That's all really. Set the Moome card to match your source.
craigr |
If you use a Radiance, and output 4:2:2 16-235 with no corection of any kind, and set the moome card to 16-235, the patterns will display whiter then white and blacker then black.. Where do you adjust it so that it will clip white and black correct.?
Or should the projector just be allowed to display whiter then white and blacker then black.?
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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stridsvognen wrote: | CIR Engineering wrote: | I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question.
The Moome card can be set to support either 0-255 or 16-235. That's all really. Set the Moome card to match your source.
craigr |
If you use a Radiance, and output 4:2:2 16-235 with no corection of any kind, and set the moome card to 16-235, the patterns will display whiter then white and blacker then black.. Where do you adjust it so that it will clip white and black correct.?
Or should the projector just be allowed to display whiter then white and blacker then black.? |
A CRT projector with a 16-235 digital input level should always be capable of displaying WTW and BTB. Of course, you will never see anything that is BTB if your brightness is set correctly. You should always be able to see WTW though.
Producers even sometimes use whites that are in the WTW range so you want to see that.
If you input 16-235 to the Moome card but have the card set to 0-255 this will crop off WTW and BTB, but it is wrong.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 2790 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Link Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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CIR Engineering wrote: | stridsvognen wrote: | CIR Engineering wrote: | I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question.
The Moome card can be set to support either 0-255 or 16-235. That's all really. Set the Moome card to match your source.
craigr |
If you use a Radiance, and output 4:2:2 16-235 with no corection of any kind, and set the moome card to 16-235, the patterns will display whiter then white and blacker then black.. Where do you adjust it so that it will clip white and black correct.?
Or should the projector just be allowed to display whiter then white and blacker then black.? |
A CRT projector with a 16-235 digital input level should always be capable of displaying WTW and BTB. Of course, you will never see anything that is BTB if your brightness is set correctly. You should always be able to see WTW though.
Producers even sometimes use whites that are in the WTW range so you want to see that.
If you input 16-235 to the Moome card but have the card set to 0-255 this will crop off WTW and BTB, but it is wrong.
craigr |
Then, if I use a PC I can select wether I want to send out the movie in 16-235 or 0-255, if I set it to 0-255 (that matches to the desktop and other program's output) means in reality that the "original film" black level which was at '16' is ofsetted to '0' or are there any conversions involved?
_________________ projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, there are conversions and rounding errors. Video is best at its native range of 16-235.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 2790 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Link Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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$1,000,000 question: how to achieve to look good both native PC content and film material if I want to preserve the original color coding of the movies?
_________________ projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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gjaky wrote: | $1,000,000 question: how to achieve to look good both native PC content and film material if I want to preserve the original color coding of the movies? |
Well pretty much any content that you watch on your PC is actually video content (unless you are using your PC on your projector as a PC). So the PC be default is outputting video incorrectly. Best thing is to use a modern video card that can be set to YCbCr 422, YCbCr 444, or RGB at video levels 16-235.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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