Return to the CurtPalme.com main site CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum
A forum with a sense of fun and community for Home Theater enthusiasts!
Products for Sale ] [ FAQ: Hooking it all up ] [ CRT Primer/FAQ ] [ Best/Worst CRT Projectors List ] [ Setup Tips & Manuals ] [ Advanced Procedures ] [ Newsletters ]

 
Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist  Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums  RegisterRegister 
 MembershipClub Membership   ProfileProfile   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in 
Blu-ray disc release list and must-have titles. Buy the latest and best Blu-ray titles to show off in your home theater!

setting contrast on a digital (Sony VPL-VW1000ES) projector

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> Audio & Video Calibration
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
THX-UltraII




Joined: 21 May 2012
Posts: 22



PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:33 am    Post subject: setting contrast on a digital (Sony VPL-VW1000ES) projector Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
Guys,

I just bought a Sony VPL-VW1000 projector. The first thing I always do when I calibrate my projector is make sure the contrast and brightness are set correctly. I always do this by putting up a black clipping test pattern for the brightness and white clipping pattern for the contrast (from the AVS709 disc). I first adjust the brightness and after that the contrast.

For the contrast I raise the contrast level to the point where I can still see 230-234 flash. But I just got a reply in the official VW1000 topic that changing the contrast does not only affect the bright parts of the greyscale but also affects the individual color channels. From what I ve been told the individual color channels will clip BEFORE the white will clip. So am I correct that I need to check the color clipping FIRST and only AFTER that look if the white does not clip?

If I m right with the above, HOW do I exactly check the color clipping (with the AVS709 dics)?
Back to top
HogPilot




Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383


TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: setting contrast on a digital (Sony VPL-VW1000ES) projec Reply with quote

THX-UltraII wrote:
Guys,

I just bought a Sony VPL-VW1000 projector. The first thing I always do when I calibrate my projector is make sure the contrast and brightness are set correctly. I always do this by putting up a black clipping test pattern for the brightness and white clipping pattern for the contrast (from the AVS709 disc). I first adjust the brightness and after that the contrast.

For the contrast I raise the contrast level to the point where I can still see 230-234 flash. But I just got a reply in the official VW1000 topic that changing the contrast does not only affect the bright parts of the greyscale but also affects the individual color channels. From what I ve been told the individual color channels will clip BEFORE the white will clip. So am I correct that I need to check the color clipping FIRST and only AFTER that look if the white does not clip?

If I m right with the above, HOW do I exactly check the color clipping (with the AVS709 dics)?


No, you should still set contrast first. You'll know that a color (always red with UHP bulbs) is clipping when you measure flat greyscale until you get to around 90 or 100 IRE, and then the amount of red relative to green and blue starts to decrease no matter how much you increase the red control at those IREs.

Here's the procedural way to fix that:

1. Decrease the contrast control by say 5 clicks, then go back to your greyscale controls and adjust your 100% IRE white.
2. If the red is still clipping (red will always be the limiting color), go back and decrease contrast another 5 clicks, and re-adjust 100 IRE white.
3. Do this until you have sufficient red to make D65 white at 100 IRE.
4. Go back and check and re-adjust 0-100IRE greyscale since those controls interact with the contrast control.

Here's the background on why this is so:

The individual greyscale controls for red, green, and blue are really just contrast (on the high end)/brightness (on the low end) controls that allow you to adjust the contrast/brightness for each color channel individually. The global contrast/brightness controls simply adjust all 3 colors simultaneously. So changing the contrast control will interact with your greyscale controls.

The specific phenomenon you're talking about is due to the fact that UHP bulbs tend to reproduce far less red relative to the amount of green or blue required to reach D65. When you're setting your greyscale controls from 0-100IRE, you might find that around 90 or 100IRE you "run out of red" - in other words, the projector is transmitting the max amount of red that the UHP blub can produce, but it's still not enough to mix with the greater amounts of blue or green to make proper D65 white. The easiest way to fix this is by decreasing the contrast control (which decreases how much of all 3 colors the projector is allowing out) enough so that you can increase red individually using the greyscale controls to reach D65 at 100IRE. Of course, the contrast control will interact with your greyscale across the board, so you'll have to go back and tweak all of your greyscale adjustments from 0-100.

Clear as mud?

_________________
ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
Back to top
THX-UltraII




Joined: 21 May 2012
Posts: 22



PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So theoretically when I increase the LOWEND red green AND blue with the same amount all I do is lowering the overall BRIGHTNESS?

Let me explain what I EXACTLY do when I calibrate my projector so you can tell me if this is the right way. I use Chromapure with a calibrated i1 Display Pro III meter:

1. setting the brightness.
I do this with a black clipping pattern from the AVS709 disc. I set the brightness value to a point where I can still see bars 17-25 flash (although 17 and 18 are pretty hard to see flashing from seating distance)

2. setting the contrast.
I do this with a black clipping pattern from the AVS709 dics, I set the contrast value to a point where I can still see bars 203-234 flash (although 234 is pretty hard to see flashing from seating distance)

3. setting the greyscale.
I take Custom3 on the VW1000 as a starting point which is basically D65 which you can adjust. I put up a 80IRE pattern and adjust the Highend R and B values until R, G and B all show approx 100% in the Chromapure software. After this I put up a 30IRE pattern and adjust the Lowend R and B values until R, G and B all show approx 100%. After this I go back and forth between 80 and 30IRE untill I get a perfect respons from both. After this is ok I check 10-100IRE and I look for room for improvement. 30-100IRE is ofter already perfect then but 10 and 20IRE are hard sometimes a the Lowend R and G might get a few notches to get it better.

4. setting the gamma.
I aim for 2.3 gamma because I have a pitch black HT room. The 2.4 gamma on the VW1000 seems to give me a pretty good almost flat gamma curve.

5. setting the color and hue.
I adjust the color and hue values of the VW1000 to get a color gamut as good as possible.

6. setting the sharpness.
Nothing important to say about this. Just look close and good

7. re-check
After all of this I check again from point 1 to 5 to see if there are any small adjustments that need to be made.

I would like to know if this is the right way or if I m missing something. I ask this because the reference setting of the VW1000 puts the CONTRAST setting on MAX (100). With this value my white clipping pattern DOES NOT CLIP but a VW1000 user on the AVS forum told me that his calibration guy lowered the contrast level to 93 because with the max setting (100) there where other things that did not look so good. Maybe it is the color clipping which is not good with setting the contrast to 100.........
Back to top
HogPilot




Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383


TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THX-UltraII wrote:
So theoretically when I increase the LOWEND red green AND blue with the same amount all I do is lowering the overall BRIGHTNESS?


Exactly. Adjusting all three 0IRE controls by the same magnitude and direction is equivalent to adjusting the brightness control; same goes for the 100IRE controls and contrast.

THX-UltraII wrote:
Let me explain what I EXACTLY do when I calibrate my projector so you can tell me if this is the right way. I use Chromapure with a calibrated i1 Display Pro III meter:

1. setting the brightness.
I do this with a black clipping pattern from the AVS709 disc. I set the brightness value to a point where I can still see bars 17-25 flash (although 17 and 18 are pretty hard to see flashing from seating distance)

2. setting the contrast.
I do this with a black clipping pattern from the AVS709 dics, I set the contrast value to a point where I can still see bars 203-234 flash (although 234 is pretty hard to see flashing from seating distance)

3. setting the greyscale.
I take Custom3 on the VW1000 as a starting point which is basically D65 which you can adjust. I put up a 80IRE pattern and adjust the Highend R and B values until R, G and B all show approx 100% in the Chromapure software. After this I put up a 30IRE pattern and adjust the Lowend R and B values until R, G and B all show approx 100%. After this I go back and forth between 80 and 30IRE untill I get a perfect respons from both. After this is ok I check 10-100IRE and I look for room for improvement. 30-100IRE is ofter already perfect then but 10 and 20IRE are hard sometimes a the Lowend R and G might get a few notches to get it better.

4. setting the gamma.
I aim for 2.3 gamma because I have a pitch black HT room. The 2.4 gamma on the VW1000 seems to give me a pretty good almost flat gamma curve.

5. setting the color and hue.
I adjust the color and hue values of the VW1000 to get a color gamut as good as possible.

6. setting the sharpness.
Nothing important to say about this. Just look close and good

7. re-check
After all of this I check again from point 1 to 5 to see if there are any small adjustments that need to be made.


Your process seems sound. However I'd highly recommend using the ImageDirector3 software to edit the gamma/greyscale as, IIRC, it offers much finer control than do the coarse high/low-end controls in the projector menu, and it also allows you to make individual adjustments to the primaries and secondaries. I don't have direct experience with that software, however from what I've read in the past it allows you to calibrate the projector quite more extensively than by using the on-board controls alone, and has always been favored heavily by calibrators.

THX-UltraII wrote:
I would like to know if this is the right way or if I m missing something. I ask this because the reference setting of the VW1000 puts the CONTRAST setting on MAX (100). With this value my white clipping pattern DOES NOT CLIP but a VW1000 user on the AVS forum told me that his calibration guy lowered the contrast level to 93 because with the max setting (100) there where other things that did not look so good. Maybe it is the color clipping which is not good with setting the contrast to 100.........


That's a distinct possibility. However if everything measures good at 100, I don't see why you can't keep it there, aside from anomalous processing errors that cause problems with the contrast that high. Can you provide a link to the posts you're talking about on AVS and I'll take a look at them for you?

_________________
ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
Back to top
ChrisWiggles
Opinionated SOB



Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 2529
Location: Seattle


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Step 7 is always critical. Calibration is an iterative process, so you always want to go through everything again and check for latter adjustments that may have affected/interacted your first go-round.

Particularly if you have to adjust greyscale a bunch, that can/will definitely affect your clipping point, so always good to go back and check for that. And you're right that you want to look for clipping OR colorshifting when setting the white point (contrast control), and be below that point. Whether you want to align the clipping/colorshifting point to reference white or peak white, or somewhere in between is a subjective decision.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> Audio & Video Calibration All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum