CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

KnottyMan · Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 25 Location: Freeland

So this is not the typical 'fun' design but I thought if anyone can help, the big brains here can think of something.

I have a conference room roughly 20' x 40' with an Acer H7530D 1080p DLP set. I run all my sources through an Onkyo receiver that upconverts to 1080 to the projector via HDMI. Works great, mostly...

Sources -
PC hdmi
visitor PC - hdmi or VGA
TV - hdmi
DVD - component
VCR - composite (yes, some Safety/training videos still come this way sadly)

When I installed this I threw a test pattern on the screen at 1080 and zoomed, focused for max area. I have the room dedicated PC dumbed down to 1440x900 though since you can't read fine text in Excel/web pages at the back of the room at 1080, but the CAD guys need a lot of screen area for their apps. So I went for happy medium (-ish). However, I'm not using 100% of the screen area anymore, but a good part really.

Not good enough says the boss. Even at the halfway point in the room, still too small for text. He's asking if there's a method to have a movable mount to get the projector to get farther back for more area at lower resolutions, but then I'm thinking about focus and all the headaches involved when you move the projector.

The guest PCs drive me nuts as everybody that shows up always has different hardware and drivers. Sometimes the drivers play nice and give a good image, only cutting off a little bit, sometimes they're really squisho.

Do I get a Lumagen to better control timings and scaling than the built in very limited Onkyo scaler that has a mind of its own? Sometimes I get 0-5 minutes to set up for a vendor lunch n learn and I'm not sure how twitchy a Lumagen is for programming.

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:01 pm Post subject:

Moving the projector is a really bad idea all around, so scratch that. You could go with two projectors.

Why not use two projectors depending on the material? I'm selling those 2000-4000 lumen Sanyo presentation projectors for $75-100 each. Would be great for 1024 X 768 powerpoint use, but use your Acer for video and high end use.

I'm not big on using consumer gear in a pro installation application, but if it works, I guess why not? I'd use an external scaler or switcher, but that's just me.

BTW, I just saw the latest lecture theater A/V system at the local university. They use 3 10,000 lumen projectors per room (!!).

One 16:9 Epson industrial unit handles the 16:9 video 1080p stuff, while two more Epson 4:3 units at 10K lumens are for 4:3 computer stuff. They can either use the two 4:3 projectors side by side on the one large 16:9 screen, or use the one middle 16:9 projector to fill the whole 16:9 screen.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

I agree with curt on the consumer grade processor.

Look at the TV one processors they are more built for conference rooms etc. and if you go with two PJ's they have multi display
processor that would be perfect.

http://www.tvone.com/index.php

Athanasios

KnottyMan · Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 25 Location: Freeland

Oh I totally agree. I *really* do not want to start messing with the physical geometry.

I thought about having a PowerPoint PC at 1024 and then having a CAD machine at 1080 all through the Acer. My users are not smart and have a hard enough time pushing the green/main or red/guest labeled button on the Onkyo for selecting the right source... let alone them actually turning the projector off when done. Two projectors? Their heads may explode. Although a Harmony One, hmm...

The variable resolutions from the visitors is also trouble. I'm trying to get a 1080 frame, then fill that from whatever source. If you hit the top, stop (4:3). Hit the side, stop (16:9, 2.51:1).

I'll have a look at the TVOne stuff though.

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:24 pm Post subject:

I haven't seen screen size mentioned. If high resolution is needed for presentation of high-resolution content, and it's not readable at the back of the room, then screen size is too small. Why go through a bunch of machinations to move the projector and/or scale the incoming signal? If readability of small type at the back of the room is of paramount concern, then make the screen size bigger.

SC

KnottyMan · Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 25 Location: Freeland

Screen is an Elite 8' x 6' and projector is 11 1/2' back. Hung the screen as high as possible and then pulled the projector back until it filled the screen area with the built in 1080 test pattern. I only can go down two more feet of wall anyways and it's already pushing below the top of table heights.

The CAD manager is understanding, he just has his guys sit closer... The problem is when you have a room of 20-30 managers/execs going over Excel and tight website data.

We've thought about ditching the screen and painting ScreenGoo or similar. Do they make a ScreenGoo that acts like a whiteboard too?

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:27 pm Post subject:

Back in the day when every laptop had a different resolution (Thus NEC having 100 memory locations in their CRt proijectors) is to simply assign one laptop/desktop to be the presentation computer. that way the resolution is fixed. With CDs and memory sticks costing nothing, that might be a way to eliminate the 'outside' computers screwing with the image.

'there's the laptop you're using for the presentation. Bring in the spreadsheet on a disc/stick and load it. NO, DON'T ARGUE WITH ME!'

Smile

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:56 pm Post subject:

The rule of thumb for a screen to be used to present data with small detail is that the height should be no less than 1/4 the distance for the furthest viewer. If you have viewers at 36 feet from the screen, your screen should be no less than 9 feet tall. That distance halves for really fine detail like in data displays like you'd see in a command and control center where the displays are used like monitors, so in that case you'd need an 18-foot screen, or people should only sit in the front half of the room.

You're exacerbating the problem with a widescreen projector because not only is the image shorter, but then 4:3 presentations are pillarboxed and look (and are) even smaller.

Tell your boss he can't have it both ways. Either the screen gets (much) bigger, the resolution has to go down, people have to sit closer, or some combination of all the above.

PowerPoint is always was a PITA, but now it's even worse. So many people still design their PowerPoint for 4:3, but many conference room projectors are starting to get replaced with 16:9, but the screens stay 4:3. It's a mess.

Related story: I built a presentation for a big dog-and-pony show a couple of months ago. I did my home work and knew the big Christie projector in the auditorium was 1080p on a large 16:9 screen, so I built the Keynote presentation for widescreen. A couple of days before, one of the reviewers looks at it - presumably on his office monitor - and tells my CEO (quite adamantly I might add), "This isn't a movie - make your presentation 4:3 like it should be." So, I spend a couple hours reformatting everything, and we add more content. The day before the presentation, my CEO goes to do his dry run in the auditorium, and what's the first nugget of feedback he gets? The presentation needs to be redone to match the projector and screen because the big black bars on the side look terrible.

Curt's idea of fixing a machine for presentation use isn't bad, but then you get people with Macs (and Keynote), people with fonts, etc. It fixes one problem and creates others.

SC

joatmon · Joined: 17 Mar 2009 Posts: 127 Location: Ottawa, Ontario

One word: WebEx (assuming everyone has their own laptop in the meeting)

KnottyMan · Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 25 Location: Freeland

Curt, I have vendors that sometimes have proprietary software pieces, or have to VPN/remote in to their HQ systems. I'd love to have the kiosk, but not flexible enough.

ecrabb, I'm with you. Cheap, fast, easy. Pick two. The favorite table layout is a square U with of course the most important people the farthest away... Makes total sense. Rolling Eyes

At least with PowerPoint, it's big fonts that scale to full screen. But yeah, 4:3 mindset still prevails. Helping set up a 401k meeting tomorrow, Powerpoint in 4:3...

When you're demoing software, going through menus and such, it is the size it is. At least web and PDFs you can zoom a lot easier. But of course nobody thinks of that. Ctrl + wheel people.

WebEx/GoToMeeting doesn't really apply here. It's multicasting to the room (although sometimes WebEx/GTM is the source content).

I'm thinking I need to drop the resolution some more and have the CAD guys bring in a portable when then need the higher res. I guess I might be trolling Curt's motherlode cause 2-4k lumens would be awesome.

Thanks for the advice all.

Jeremy112 · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2645 Location: Fond du Lac, WI

ok if you're using a PC (with windows on it assuming) you can change the DPI settings of text to make it REALLY large, and still use the native resolution of the projector so it stays clear. This is what I do on my HD displays so I can view the text from afar. No complaints ever either Very Happy

KnottyMan · Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 25 Location: Freeland

Yes, Win7 and I could try that. I'm trying to accommodate too many types of people apparently and the CAD guys will just have to use their own projector at full res when they use the room. Thought about having a procedure to change settings, but oy, making them follow them when I'm not around...

WheatKing · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 66 Location: Ontario, Canada

http://www.barco.com/en/Products-Solutions/Presentation-collaboration/Clickshare-wireless-presentation-system

Try one of these.. makes the guest / manager thing easier.. if they don't like it then can change the resolution on their own machines themselves.. works with mac and pc..

And it's from Barco.. supposedly works really really well.

I also have an auto-vga switch in one meeting room.. so it defaults to the vga connector on the boardroom table, and then if nothing is plugged into it, it goes to the secondary vga input which is connected to a pc with wireless mouse and keyboard.. got it from Startech..

can't fix stupid, the lowest common denominator wins again..

The auditorium where I work suffers the same problem.. going low-tech solved most of the issues.. we project onto a white painted wall with a VGA projector.. it makes me cringe, but most everyone else thinks its "ok" 1024x768 keeps everything big.. contrast sucks, blacks suck, resolution sucks, but most are ignorant that it could be sooooooooo much better if they'd spend 2 minutes to actually listen to the IT support. Saves me a ton of headaches though, so I just shut up and deal with it.