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Lumagen HDP + Colorspace issue with source

 
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fragzero



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:34 am    Post subject: Lumagen HDP + Colorspace issue with source Reply with quote


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Setup

Bluray player - Lumagen HDP - Greg E.7 DVI Card


Lumagen

USR EDID: 720P + 422 + 444 allowed (user EDID)
DVI Mode: HDMI 422 component


Bluray set to 422 YCbCr


Result ---> Pink picture

Isn't this supposted to work with a Lumagen HDP? (it can't be the last part of the chain since a HDP always outputs RGB)
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 3868
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like it should work, but you are probably missing something simple.

Set your BD player to 1080p 24Hz and let the Lumagen scale to 720p.

craigr

_________________
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Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
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Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything else Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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fragzero



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
Seems like it should work, but you are probably missing something simple.

Set your BD player to 1080p 24Hz and let the Lumagen scale to 720p.

craigr


Seems like it, really strange Sad

I think i'm doing something wrong, whatever i do my reciever keeps changing YCbCr to RGB even if i set it to HDMI Direct (onky TXNR809) Something which it should not do. Seems like it's not reading the EDID correctly and decides to change it to RGB anyway.

(edit: in the example above there is no reciever)

(testing with 720p, my bluray player does not do 1080i60 + 1080p24 for movies, it's 1080p60 for menu and 1080p24 for movies)
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fragzero



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just found this on AVS from a Lumagen REP

Quote:

The HDP EDID can report that the HDP takes 4:2:2. However, most HDMI devices seem to refuse to pay attention to the EDID for this unless they are see that the device is HDMI. So, unfortunately for more HDMI sources, you will be forced to use RGB through a Vision series device.


That is probably the reason my Onkyo refuses to output 4:2:2

Still does not explain the issue with my bluray player (which really does output 4:2:2) but it does not matter if my onkyo won't do it.
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 3868
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the Onkyo / Integra receivers have a hidden way to turn off all video processing. If you get your receiver into pass through mode than it shouldn't alter the signal to RGB.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
ChromaPure3 Pro Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Audyssey MultEQ Pro Audio Calibration System
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything else Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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fragzero



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
Most of the Onkyo / Integra receivers have a hidden way to turn off all video processing. If you get your receiver into pass through mode than it shouldn't alter the signal to RGB.

craigr


Well the "hidden" option is set to direct, resolution through. There should be no video processing going on.

But this is another issue really, i'd be happy to get my bluray working Smile
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 3868
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you plug the BD into the Lumagen at 422 and then plug the Lumagen directly into the projector does it give you correct colors?

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
ChromaPure3 Pro Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Audyssey MultEQ Pro Audio Calibration System
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything else Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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fragzero



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
If you plug the BD into the Lumagen at 422 and then plug the Lumagen directly into the projector does it give you correct colors?

craigr


Yesterday they were not correct, today i turned everything on - colors were fine....

Must have been some EDID issue, i did apoweroff everything yesterday (remove the plug) but still nothing.

My reciever still refuses to output 422.
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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2750
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fragzero wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
If you plug the BD into the Lumagen at 422 and then plug the Lumagen directly into the projector does it give you correct colors?

craigr


Yesterday they were not correct, today i turned everything on - colors were fine....

Must have been some EDID issue, i did apoweroff everything yesterday (remove the plug) but still nothing.

My reciever still refuses to output 422.


Are you sure its not a cable issue??
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Rolls-Royce



Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 288
Location: Victorville, CA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fragzero wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
Most of the Onkyo / Integra receivers have a hidden way to turn off all video processing. If you get your receiver into pass through mode than it shouldn't alter the signal to RGB.

craigr


Well the "hidden" option is set to direct, resolution through. There should be no video processing going on.

But this is another issue really, i'd be happy to get my bluray working Smile


The Onkyo processor is active even in through/direct. What Craig is describing is a means of completely disabling the Onkyo's VP. On my 3007, you have to hold the VCR/DVD button on the receiver's front panel while pressing the Return button under the receiver's swing-down door. You should see "Video Processor:Skip" or "Video Processor:Use" on the info panel. "Skip" turns off the VP. With the VP off, you will lose the receiver's on-screen display, so if this is important to you, use it for trouble-shooting purposes only.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the DVI card is what's causing the receiver to go to RGB. Even though you said the DVI is set for 422 component, some HDMI devices will automatically interpret a DVI target display as needing computer or RGB input.

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Last edited by Rolls-Royce on Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 3868
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolls-Royce wrote:

And I wouldn't be surprised if the DVI card is what's causing the receiver to go to RGB. Even though you said the DVI is set for 422 component, some HDMI devices will automatically interpret a DVI target display as needing computer or RGB input.

Very true.

The DVI connection on the Lumagen HDP can't send EDID back to the receiver, so the receiver assumes that the signal must be RGB.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
ChromaPure3 Pro Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Audyssey MultEQ Pro Audio Calibration System
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything else Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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fragzero



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344



PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tip about VCR + Return, it also works on my 809!

Not a real passthrough i'm afraid, it keeps converting YCbCr to RGB.

@CIR the lumagen can pass EDID, it even has an EDID edit option, it just can't hide that it's a DVI device and since most DVI devices can only handle RGB they output RGB as only option.
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Rolls-Royce



Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 288
Location: Victorville, CA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fragzero wrote:
Thanks for the tip about VCR + Return, it also works on my 809!

Not a real passthrough i'm afraid, it keeps converting YCbCr to RGB.

@CIR the lumagen can pass EDID, it even has an EDID edit option, it just can't hide that it's a DVI device and since most DVI devices can only handle RGB they output RGB as only option.


It is a passthrough in that no further video processing takes place, but the signal still has to be retransmitted by the Onkyo's HDMI transmitter chip, which "sees" the DVI sink and responds by outputting RGB. All HDMI intermediate devices retransmit the signal, partly for cable equalization reasons, and partly to maintain HDCP. None can be passthroughs as you might find in the analog world.

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