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Decibel
Joined: 31 May 2007 Posts: 904 Location: Roma - Italia
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:20 pm Post subject: Issue with Radiance 2041 at 1080p@72hz |
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I would to try the resolution in subject with my BG1209s
So I set custom timings with my Radiance 2041.
No problem with custom timings 1080p@75hz (input Digital TV receiver at 1080i@50hz).
If set the default Radiance preset at 1080p@72hz, the BG1209s detect the correctly resolution.
But it is unusable because the image isn't to center of the raster and it is cutted at left edge.
No hphase and raster menu resolve this issue.
When I try to set custom timings for 1080p@72hz (inputs HTPC and mediaplayer 1080p@24hz) my BG1209s detect (and work?) with wrong refresh Frequency (H 66hz and V 75,4khz instead 72hz and 82khz ).
I found a possible bug?
Can be a Barco frequency detection error?
Someone that have Radiance 2041 and crt projector 1080p@72hz capable can do a test?
My custom timings (for centering and filling the image in the raster) are ...
V total 1137
V active 1080
V front 10
V sync 15
V rate 71,93
H total 2450
H active 1920
H front 20
H sync 245
clock 200338408 (vtot*Htot*vrate)
Sorry for the language.
_________________ Domenico (Barco fan!)
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1608
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Any chance to shift with the Fury or Moome if you have one ?
_________________ Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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Decibel
Joined: 31 May 2007 Posts: 904 Location: Roma - Italia
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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ElTopo wrote: | Any chance to shift with the Fury or Moome if you have one ? |
I have Fury 3D but I disabled the shift feature.
I own a very prestigious and expensive videoprocessor that has a specific section for fine correction of the timings.
Why should I use another device?
I have perfectly centered the image in the raster, the unused portion of the raster is very very little.
I think that is the IDEAL condition for any crt.
My question now is: the error comes from the video processor or from the projector?
_________________ Domenico (Barco fan!)
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stridsvognen Guest
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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It seems like your clock is quite high.. is it not possible to lower V Total a bit and H Total maybe 100 Down..?
Dont you get a sharper Picture, and richer colors if you lower you resolution to 960P 72hz, or something like that.?
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1608
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Leave the VP out of the video chain for the test that would be the easiest way.
Could the HTPC be set to that resolution?
_________________ Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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Decibel
Joined: 31 May 2007 Posts: 904 Location: Roma - Italia
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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ElTopo wrote: | Leave the VP out of the video chain for the test that would be the easiest way.
Could the HTPC be set to that resolution? |
Decibel wrote: | If set the default Radiance preset at 1080p@72hz, the BG1209s detect the correctly resolution. |
I think that I'll connect htpc directly, bypass Radiance, the projector will detect correct resolution like default Radiance preset timings at 1080p@72hz.
I have a Radeon HD graphic card, it's incompatible with powerstrip timings correction.
So the video output will have default timings.
_________________ Domenico (Barco fan!)
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Decibel
Joined: 31 May 2007 Posts: 904 Location: Roma - Italia
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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stridsvognen wrote: | It seems like your clock is quite high.. is it not possible to lower V Total a bit and H Total maybe 100 Down..? |
I found some informations that show that timings parameters must respect this conditions:
V Total= V active + 5%
H Total= H active + 25%
So
V Total= 1080 + 5% = 1137
H Total= 1920 + 25% = 2400
But with 2400 pixel total, the image was too large than raster.
With 2450 is perfect in my equipment.
_________________ Domenico (Barco fan!)
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stridsvognen Guest
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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And it dont look better with a lower resolution? Like 720p or 960p? 72hz
I think 200mhz is way to high a pixel clock, for any crt, specialy barco, unless i have misunderstood.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Issue with Radiance 2041 at 1080p@72hz |
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Decibel wrote: | I would to try the resolution in subject with my BG1209s
So I set custom timings with my Radiance 2041.
No problem with custom timings 1080p@75hz (input Digital TV receiver at 1080i@50hz).
If set the default Radiance preset at 1080p@72hz, the BG1209s detect the correctly resolution.
But it is unusable because the image isn't to center of the raster and it is cutted at left edge.
No hphase and raster menu resolve this issue.
When I try to set custom timings for 1080p@72hz (inputs HTPC and mediaplayer 1080p@24hz) my BG1209s detect (and work?) with wrong refresh Frequency (H 66hz and V 75,4khz instead 72hz and 82khz ).
I found a possible bug?
Can be a Barco frequency detection error?
Someone that have Radiance 2041 and crt projector 1080p@72hz capable can do a test?
My custom timings (for centering and filling the image in the raster) are ...
V total 1137
V active 1080
V front 10
V sync 15
V rate 71,93
H total 2450
H active 1920
H front 20
H sync 245
clock 200338408 (vtot*Htot*vrate)
Sorry for the language. |
Your clock rate is wrong, that's why you are having problems.
The equation you want is:
Vtotal x Htotal x (72/1.001) = Clock
1137 x 2450 x (72/1.001) = 200366434
On the Radiance processor DO NOT ENTER THE Vrate!!!! Only use the clock rate and let the processor calculate the Vrate. If you enter a Vrate the clock will not come out quite correctly.
All that being said, can't you use the Barco to shift the image back to center inside the raster. The Barco I would think would work fine with the stock Lumagen 1080p 72Hz timings without modifications.
Let me know what you see. I can help more.
I have installed several 2041's on G90's already and so far have not had any problems at all.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Decibel wrote: | stridsvognen wrote: | It seems like your clock is quite high.. is it not possible to lower V Total a bit and H Total maybe 100 Down..? |
I found some informations that show that timings parameters must respect this conditions:
V Total= V active + 5%
H Total= H active + 25%
So
V Total= 1080 + 5% = 1137
H Total= 1920 + 25% = 2400
But with 2400 pixel total, the image was too large than raster.
With 2450 is perfect in my equipment. |
I don't think you will need that much extra.
Most likely 2200x1125 will work fine. I would think that 2250x1135 would most likely be more than enough.
Maybe I am wrong though, I am not the Barco expert. I use 2400 width on Marquee sometimes to eliminate raster ringing, but on the G90 I use 2200-2250 width.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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You can also just download my clock calculator here too:
http://www.cir-engineering.com/bin/clock_calc.xls
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Decibel
Joined: 31 May 2007 Posts: 904 Location: Roma - Italia
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Decibel wrote: | Thank you Craigr
I tried to reduce H total and V total respectively at 2200 and 1125 as you said.
The clock was reduced because in according to formula ...
Code: | clock= (Vtot*Htot*Vrate) |
... but the image is too large than raster
Perhaps could be an issue of the mediaplayer video output? |
The issue must be in the projector if extra pixels fix the problem.
Are you sure you have the blanking set all the way open on your Barco? If not, you should open up the blanking and then shift the image towards the bottom right of the raster.
Decibel wrote: | Craigr wrote: | You can also just download my clock calculator here too: |
My friend did a Custom Timings Calculator.
I applied some modify specify for Radiance use.
See in attachment |
The clock calculator I linked you to is one I made up for Radiance installs. It's simple and will give you the correct clock frequency in Hz to input for a given Htotal and Vtotal at a given refresh rate. It only requires that you use progressive frequencies as interlaced is a slightly different equation.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Decibel
Joined: 31 May 2007 Posts: 904 Location: Roma - Italia
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Link Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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CIR Engineering wrote: |
Are you sure you have the blanking set all the way open on your Barco? |
No
I fully closed the blanking (no blanking covers).
Decibel wrote: |
The clock calculator I linked you to is one I made up for Radiance installs. It's simple and will give you the correct clock frequency in Hz to input for a given Htotal and Vtotal at a given refresh rate. It only requires that you use progressive frequencies as interlaced is a slightly different equation. |
Ok but my calculator have same results of your
Craigr
Between Radiance and Projector there is a HD Fury 3D
Perhaps this device alters the parameters of the image and the Radiance can not fix them.
Settings of HDFury 3D
1) ON (RGB Output)
2) ON (Sync passed)
3) OFF (Sync positive OFF)
4) ON (RGB COlor 0-255)
5) OFF (Shift disabled)
6) ON (Power led ON)
7) ON (High Frame Rate)
8) OFF (3D scaling 1080p)
9) OFF (audio info from sink)
0) OFF (Dynamic EDID 3d)
_________________ Domenico (Barco fan!)
Last edited by Decibel on Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, it could be the HD Fury 3D. I have honestly never worked with it so I can't test here for you.
The Lumagen can fix it as you know by increasing the total pixels. This is less than ideal though because you are sending extra bandwidth that shouldn't be needed.
I might suggest trying Moome's EXTV3 but I had some issues with it early in its development. It may be better now and is probably worth a shot. The trouble I had with it was image shift being enabled with custom scan rates.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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I just started talking to Moome about a Barco HDMI board. If he made one for the projector it would certainly be the best solution. The Sony and Marquee input cards that Moome makes are by far the best solutions for those projectors. You may want to drop Moome an email and let him know that you are interested.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Decibel wrote: |
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You should also set you Fury to 16-235 (jumper 4).
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Decibel
Joined: 31 May 2007 Posts: 904 Location: Roma - Italia
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Link Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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CIR Engineering wrote: | You may want to drop Moome an email and let him know that you are interested. |
Yes I could be interested.
He's a member in this forum?
I see that external Moome's device is not 1080p@72hz capable, right?
_________________ Domenico (Barco fan!)
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stridsvognen Guest
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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The Moome EXTv3 does support 1080 72Hz. Moome can veryify, but I have used it at that and much higher resolutions on client machines.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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