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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049
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 Link Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to this thread and your comments, I just followed your footsteps, Kal and bought an RS55. I haven't permanently mounted it to my theater yet but it puts out a steller picture, already exceeding my crt, and I am glad I bought it.
That being said, I am at a complete loss at how to get the eshift going. According to here: http://www.usjvc.com/faq/index.php?action=artikel&cat=20&id=275&artlang=en&highlight=eshift%20adjustment JVC says it is running by default and that it only goes off if you use 3d mode. But when I switch to 3d mode the pixels still look exactly the same to me. They are no bigger or smaller than they were in natural mode. Just to be clear, my pixels are visible for about 6 to 12 inches from the screen so at my 7 foot viewing its not going to be a problem for me. But I have to say this is the most frustrating crap I have ever seen because I feel like I paid nearly double for a feature I am not even sure I have. I'm wondering if I should have just bought one of the lower ended models without eshift.
Kal, how did you go from normal mode to eshift? The projector clearly says RU55 on the back and I also have all the fine pixel adjustments, which I think are great.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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I think on the 55 you can't turn Eshift off. I had a chart here on the different models and some the off option was not available. But I can't find it right now.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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RV, the effect of e-Shift should be really obvious, in that you shouldn't even really be able to see pixels at all, standing 3-5' feet from the screen, or even right up at the screen. If you can see clearly-defined square pixels, then I'd be suspicious that a warranty phone call is in order, because e-Shift can't be working.
I'm wondering though, coming from CRT, if you just aren't seeing how noticeable the pixels are when e-Shift isn't engaged.
There are a couple of options to see it turned off. One is 3D mode, which you say you tried. Another is to turn on CMD in either Mode 1 or Mode 2 (black frame insertion modes), and it should also disengage e-Shift.
Mac, you can't disable e-Shift from the user menu, but supposedly can from the service menu. No point in posting that here though, since RV should just be able to use CMD 1 or 2 to disable e-Shift.
Oh, RV... Perhaps you have CMD Mode 1 or Mode 2 on already, which is disabling e-Shift by default?
SC
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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SC......Well give him the code so he can make sure it's not turned off from the factory and also he can switch back and forth to see if it's working.
What type input are you using RV? PC input disables CMD and Eshift would be on.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | I have an RS56. In the menus eshift is called "MPC". I can turn it off.
Kal |
That's what I thought. Wish I could find that damn chart I had.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | SC......Well give him the code so he can make sure it's not turned off from the factory and also he can switch back and forth to see if it's working. |
OK. It's supposed to be up, down, right, left, and enter, in quick succession.
| kal wrote: | I have an RS56. In the menus eshift is called "MPC". I can turn it off.
This is different from CMD (clear motion drive). CMD fills in frames so that 24 fps looks smooth. |
Are you sure e-Shift equals MPC, Kal? In this article about e-Shift, the writer makes it sounds like MPC is the variable control for the detail enhancement (necessary to counteract the scaling/interpolation to 4k).
http://www.hometheater.com/content/jvc-procision-dla-x70r-d-ila-3d-projector-e-shifting
| Quote: | | Intuition isn’t always conclusive, but this process would seem destined to slightly blur the image. To overcome this as much as possible, detail enhancement is used. The visibility of the resulting white lines can be minimized, but not eliminated, by turning a control called MPC down to zero. Interestingly, MPC is grayed out and unavailable whenever e-Shift is off, but turning MPC itself down to zero does not turn off e-Shift. The function of the MPC feature is otherwise poorly defined. An addendum to the manual says it “adjust[s] the effect of resolution sense caused by [an] increase in resolution of image display. Please adjust the image noise to your requirement.” Whatever. |
We could just split this into a new thread on e-Shift. I'd do it, but I don't want to be responsible for messing something up. 
SC
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kal
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, looking the manual and the projector menus, technically the option I'm turning off/on to disable and enable e-shift is the one called "4K Profile" which is under the "MPC" menu. Sorry for the confusion. On the remote you press the MPC button to get to the MPC menu where the "4K Profile" can be turned off/on.
It's here in the menus on the RS56:
Picture Adjust -> MPC Level -> 4K Profile -> OFF (results in eshift off)
Picture Adjust -> MPC Level -> 4K Profile -> ON (results in eshift on)
There are extra options in the "MPC Level" menu too that are independant of whether 4K is on or off:
Picture Adjust -> MPC Level -> Enhance (0-100)
Picture Adjust -> MPC Level -> Dynamic Contrast (0-100)
Picture Adjust -> MPC Level -> Smoothing (0-100)
Kal
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049
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| Link Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | SC......Well give him the code so he can make sure it's not turned off from the factory and also he can switch back and forth to see if it's working.
What type input are you using RV? PC input disables CMD and Eshift would be on. |
Mac, thanks so much for the help. After trying all 3 modes of the CMD and what Kal did I was going crazy because I could not see any difference at all. I even tryed a demo split screen they have and still could see absolutely no difference. I was about to call the seller and bitch about it being broken when I tryed the service code SC gave me. And low and behold I finally can toggle the eshift ln/off. And with the eshift off the picture looks really hideous and ugly. All along I had the eshift going but I had no way of knowing.
Thanks again Mac.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Link Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| RVonse wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | SC......Well give him the code so he can make sure it's not turned off from the factory and also he can switch back and forth to see if it's working.
What type input are you using RV? PC input disables CMD and Eshift would be on. |
Mac, thanks so much for the help. After trying all 3 modes of the CMD and what Kal did I was going crazy because I could not see any difference at all. I even tryed a demo split screen they have and still could see absolutely no difference. I was about to call the seller and bitch about it being broken when I tryed the service code SC gave me. And low and behold I finally can toggle the eshift ln/off. And with the eshift off the picture looks really hideous and ugly. All along I had the eshift going but I had no way of knowing.
Thanks again Mac. |
I'm bewildered why the image would look hideous with e-shift off. (Someone make a separate thread)
With e-shift off one should simply have a 1080P imaging system displaying a 1080P source, no? Its not like the pixels have a bigger gap than non-eshifting JVC systems. Can you explain what was hideous?
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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Link Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Thread split, new topic started.
| RVonse wrote: | | And with the eshift off the picture looks really hideous and ugly. |
While I do enjoy eshift on my RS56, with it off and you sitting at least a screen width away, it should be pretty hard to tell if it's on or off. I could certainly live without it if I had to. With it off, getting up closer to the screen just reminds me that "oh yeah, this is a digital". With it on, you'll mistake it for CRT.
Kal
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049
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| Link Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | Thread split, new topic started.
| RVonse wrote: | | And with the eshift off the picture looks really hideous and ugly. |
While I do enjoy eshift on my RS56, with it off and you sitting at least a screen width away, it should be pretty hard to tell if it's on or off. I could certainly live without it if I had to. With it off, getting up closer to the screen just reminds me that "oh yeah, this is a digital". With it on, you'll mistake it for CRT.
Kal |
Thats exactly what I meant! But unlike you, I am not sure I could live without it. Or a least I would be doing a double take on whether or not I really wanted to swap out the crt (which for now is still functioning). It would have been a hard decison because the jvc beats the crap out of the crt in many ways but that sreendoor effect sure looks terrible to my eyes also. Its all relative because I was thinking it looked kind of bad even before I managed to turn the feature off.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Link Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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What's your screen size and viewing distance, RV?
SC
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049
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| Link Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Screen size is 10' and the first row where I like to sit is only 7'. I know its not recomended but I really like it with my Barco. Looks just fine with JVC too though. I have to get about 1' foot away before I can see screendoor, even I'm not sitting that close. Still not as smooth as the Barco but all considered, more than good enough for me.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Link Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Holy sh*t, that's a big screen AND you're sitting close. Man, and people give me sh*t about sitting close. I could have told you the non-e-Shift projectors wouldn't have worked for you.
My screen is 8 feet wide, and I sit about 10 feet from it, so viewing distance is about 1.2x screen widths. I can just see pixels on high contrast details and small type. Basically, it looks excellent 95% of the time, and the other benefits far, far outweigh the few negatives.
I'm actually thinking about going to a 9-foot scope screen, and moving it just a bit closer, but I'll need to sell my '45 and upgrade to a '55 to do it.
SC
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dturco
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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Location: Eastern Shore Maryland
TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner
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| Link Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm actually thinking about going to a 9-foot scope screen |
Going 9 Ft...that's what I've got now with, R.I.P Gozer. Well, almost, @ 104.5 width. It's not enough. I'm going bigger, to 117.5 wide, with an A lense too. I sit 12 ft. from the screen, so, I guess for seating distance that's about the same as you are now.
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
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| Link Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| RVonse wrote: | | Screen size is 10' and the first row where I like to sit is only 7'. I know its not recomended but I really like it with my Barco. |
A great example of how different we all are in our preferences. Your d/w is an amazing 0.7, while my preference is closer to 1.1 (1.0-1.2). And I wonder when I hear about those preferring a viewing distance of 1.7-2.0+! That just seems to make the image way too small, and unimpressive. You're definitely on the other end of the spectrum. But whatever works for each individual is the always the best choice.
However beyond the gigantic 70-deg field of view there, Bob, I would think that the picture would seem blurry at that distance? I.e., the farther out one gets, the sharper an image seems, and as I move in and approach a d/w of 1.0, diminishing returns kick in. Yes, it keeps getting bigger, but it's too soft, and well, blurry. Perhaps your 1209 makes up for that deficiency with my 808, but even 9" tubes have their limits. Not to mention the source material.
| Quote: | | Looks just fine with JVC too though. I have to get about 1' foot away before I can see screendoor, even I'm not sitting that close. Still not as smooth as the Barco but all considered, more than good enough for me. |
Well there are no pixels or sharp edges on the Barco, that's for sure. So it will definitely be 'smooth'. To approximate what an analog PJ does in that regard on a digital, you need significantly greater resolution (or some other technique to kill the hard pixel edges, like what Panasonic has on their PJs).
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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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