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Darbeevision
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BobNelson



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 58
Location: Green Valley, AZ


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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I was over at AVS and there are over 5000 posts on Darbee. Here, the last post is from June. Is there a reason to this?? Question

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VideoGrabber



Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps folks here are less susceptible to gimmicks? Smile

(Or maybe we're just older, so it's harder for us to jump on bandwagons. Very Happy)

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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say three reasons:

1) This site probably has 200-300 registered users (out of 10,000) browsing the site in a given week. AVS is probably more like 10,000 out of 100,000 browsing in a given week. AVS is a huge forum with lots of traffic. There are a few dozen active threads a day on this forum; there are hundreds on AVS.

2) Most CRT guys here are pretty happy with their setup and are less inclined to add things to their signal chain. If they do spend money, it's on audio, or to upgrade their projector to better lenses, HDMI input card, scaler, etc. A lot of digital guys with new equipment are constantly chasing the newest/latest/greatest things, whatever that may be. Call it "forum effect", "HT meet effect", or whatever... Some guys see/hear others playing with new toys and they want to play, too.

3) A lot of guys here are cheapskates. Seriously. Not that there's even anything at all wrong with that. But, when Darbee box costs more than what a lot of guys here spent on their entire projector...

SC
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BobNelson



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 58
Location: Green Valley, AZ


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Darbee box is chicken feed when you buy a Tim Martin projector.

And OLD? I'm 74. Laughing

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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobNelson wrote:
The Darbee box is chicken feed when you buy a Tim Martin projector.

Indeed. That's why I said, "A lot of guys here..." and not "Everybody here".

Still, I'd guess that the majority of guys here bought relatively cheap used/surplus machines, while the guys who have G90's, 9500 Ultras, 909's, and stacks with Radiance, masking, etc. are by far in the minority.

SC
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boilermeaker mentioned that he didn't find an improvement with a CRT. My guess is based on that no other CRT owner has given it a try.

VideoGrabber wrote:
Perhaps folks here are less susceptible to gimmicks? Smile

(Or maybe we're just older, so it's harder for us to jump on bandwagons. Very Happy)


I thought you believed that it may have merit.
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VideoGrabber



Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
Boilermeaker mentioned that he didn't find an improvement with a CRT. My guess is based on that no other CRT owner has given it a try.

Thanks for that info. I missed that.
Quote:

VideoGrabber wrote:
Perhaps folks here are less susceptible to gimmicks? Smile

(Or maybe we're just older, so it's harder for us to jump on bandwagons. Very Happy)

I thought you believed that it may have merit.

Oh, I do. And it might. And my plan was always to get one and give it a try. But my CRT is down now, and has been for a while, in preparation for a move, so I won't be doing so for some time.

I was really just joking. Instead of the grins, I guess I should have substituted winks. Sloppy of me. Wink

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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boilermaker's results are interesting. One of the areas CRT falls short is ANSI, or in-scene contrast. That's one area that good digitals are really good, and it's one of the most common things you hear from "switchers" like me. In scenes with mixed high- and low-APL content, the comment you usually hear is that the good digital's image has "pop", like a "veil" was removed from the image compared to the CRT.

I would have thought the Darbeevision box would have helped with that, but I wonder if the CRT's poor ANSI is masking much of the effect.

What projectors are Bob using in his blend? Aren't they XG LC's?

SC
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is using XG LCs. He is one data point. It would be nice to see some others take a chance. If I get everything set up in the next couple of months, then I might take a chance.
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jamsys



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 152



PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So has anyone really tried this with a good PJ? I have the zenith pro1200x (Barco cine8 like kal) everything is either processed or passed thru a DVDO vp50 to my pj.... I use ps3,direct Tv, Vudu and ad dvd's.... Is this gadget with the $$$$. I am slow to move on big $$$$ stuff but if this works it's worth it to me


Scott
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Boilermaker's results are interesting. One of the areas CRT falls short is ANSI, or in-scene contrast. That's one area that good digitals are really good, and it's one of the most common things you hear from "switchers" like me. In scenes with mixed high- and low-APL content, the comment you usually hear is that the good digital's image has "pop", like a "veil" was removed from the image compared to the CRT.

I would have thought the Darbeevision box would have helped with that, but I wonder if the CRT's poor ANSI is masking much of the effect.

What projectors are Bob using in his blend? Aren't they XG LC's?

SC


I can follow your point, but i think the ANSI contrast is a bit mor complex than you put it.. Sure my JVC makes better ANSI in most rooms, But when you dedicate a room and handels all the light reflection around the room, i actually think my 9500lc is close, if not the same.

I have seen a BARCO 808 setup where the ANSI contrast was very bad, compared to what i'm used to
But the room missed a lot of attention, and that is less of a problem with many digitals, they are better to keep most of the light on the screen.

So i think its wrong to claim that CRT falls short in ANSI. You just need more work to get there.. like all other good stuff with CRT. Wink

CRT is not the lazy mans hobby..
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it has been measured. CRT has very low numbers for ANSI cr. LC is obviously better than AC, but it is still less than 200 to 1. I am not sure what JVC's latest pjs are measured at, but they used to be on the low end compared to other digitals.
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So i'm curious.. What projector have the best ANSI contrast.? And can anyone in here with a reference 9" setup try measure it..
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BobNelson



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 58
Location: Green Valley, AZ


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is time for us to pull our finger out and get with it. Darbee has licensed Lumagen to use this processor in their equipment.

I think that speaks for it self. Very Happy

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HogPilot



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383


TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobNelson wrote:
I think it is time for us to pull our finger out and get with it. Darbee has licensed Lumagen to use this processor in their equipment.

I think that speaks for it self. Very Happy


From what I've read, this won't be coming to the current Radiance series though - not enough room in memory and/or processing available. Supposedly we'll be seeing it in the new Radiance 4K processor, which initial rumors have due out this year.

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ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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armstrr



Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 160



PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as mentioned...not everyone thinks its gimmicky

http://darbeevision.com/view_news/id/50/title/DarbeeVision_Licenses_HDMI_Video_Processor_Design_to_Lumagen

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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5344
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen one of these Darby things in action on a previously retubed Marquee 8500 at one of my customers house last month.

The guy who owns the setup always reads up on things well before purchase, and usually pays close attention to reviews.

Myself I'm not into image sharpening an enhancement devices, so when he asked I was prepared to see the digital sharpening that is so common with these devices, and to also look for the amount of edge enhancement that's always present.

He was not that familiar with the device, so it took awhile for him to work through the quirky little On-Screen-Display. First he was able to let me see a split screen demo mode the device produced. Then he somehow managed to get it to work on the source material.

And I must say for the first time I did get to see a sharper image, but it was not what I was expecting. It was very likable and did not have the usual nasties (distortions) that are so common with these devices.

If I could describe the image effect or change, I think a better word would be 'Image Tightening' - It appears to somehow tighten the image from both sides without the nasties, rather than what has been so common with devices like this that sharpens the image, and for whatever amount of sharpness improvement you see, you also see the same amount of noise (distortion) in the image.

Now... I did not get to play with the device and its adjustments and to see at what level the noise would appear, and I also know that it has to appear at some point, because you just cannot recreate a sharp image from a source that does not have sharp image content. And that's why I prefer the word tighten.

For CRT or what I think about it on a CRT... for the price, I think for the first time, there is a device out there worth the money that will actually improve on the image, and would do so without making the projected CRT image look like a cheap digital.

Would I own one, absolutely. Who want to buy me one..Mr. Green
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BobNelson



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 58
Location: Green Valley, AZ


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's about time that one of the Big Dogs got with it with the Darbee. There are about 180 pages on this device over at AVS.

I think it's the best thing since sliced bread.

I think it's about time to see this used in the screen shot thread Very Happy

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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1227
Location: Calgary


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For CRT or what I think about it on a CRT... for the price, I think for the first time, there is a device out there worth the money that will actually improve on the image, and would do so without making the projected CRT image look like a cheap digital.............

SO Mike would that statement include the Moome units as not being worthy of the money spent to improve the image on a CRT? lol. Or did they just split from your memory?

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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5344
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
For CRT or what I think about it on a CRT... for the price, I think for the first time, there is a device out there worth the money that will actually improve on the image, and would do so without making the projected CRT image look like a cheap digital.............

SO Mike would that statement include the Moome units as not being worthy of the money spent to improve the image on a CRT? lol. Or did they just split from your memory?


I forgot you were still around. And had I remembered that I would have made sure I put everything in complete context to make sure you would not misunderstand what I was talking about.

Was the Moome device included in this - No! Moome device does not IMPROVE on the image... It simply transcode and it does it very well, and it does it without improving, changing, modifying, enhancing, softening, sharpening, etc.

Got it..Mr. Green
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