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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049
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 Link Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Ok, you guys have really excited me on the e-shift, that sounds perfect for my style of theater. But I am still wondering about the 3d bad mouthing from Cliff and others. Have there been any succesful JVC firmware fixes for the RS-55 or do we just have to say this is a 2d projector? I kind of enjoy 3d and was hoping to get some of that too someday.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Link Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| RVonse wrote: | | Ok, you guys have really excited me on the e-shift, that sounds perfect for my style of theater. But I am still wondering about the 3d bad mouthing from Cliff and others. Have there been any succesful JVC firmware fixes for the RS-55 or do we just have to say this is a 2d projector? I kind of enjoy 3d and was hoping to get some of that too someday. |
If you're serious about 3D, there are better projectors out there than the JVCs. I did 3D with my RS50, and it was pretty good with minimal ghosting after about a 20-30 minute warmup period. At the time I was using a small screen (84") so light output wasn't an issue for 3D. However without a high gain screen, the JVCs just don't put out enough light for bright 3D on a larger screen.
For 2D, it's a phenomenal projector; for 3D, it's not awful, but it's not top-notch either.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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jamsys
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 152
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| Link Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Crap..... Hurry up KAL!
I cleaned up the Cine8 settings and sat down.... DAMM the picture is beyond (and it never has been ISF'd) Then I find both a RS56 and RS48 at a disgustingly low price.... Dont know if the price diff from the 48 to 56 is worth it... Kal is the only guy that can give me a true report, as he had my PJ
Scott
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10273
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| Link Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Spanky, of course that would be the reality of going beyond your eyes ability. And when I say 'you eyes' I mean the human eye system. Steve, I get it. I just can't put stock into it [yet] until I witness it first. Its like 3D. I've only seen terrible versions of its implementation and even in those best cases found little rewarding (satisfaction) from it. This can be said about a lot of things, though.
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Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
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| Link Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| jamsys wrote: | | Dont know if the price diff from the 48 to 56 is worth it... Kal is the only guy that can give me a true report |
Kal may not be able to give you a report on the value of the 56 over the 48, unless he was able to see and test them somewhere already.
But in one sense, he's already answered that question for you, Scott, since he certainly could have picked up a 48 for less, yet bought the 56 instead. 
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- Tim
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Link Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| VideoGrabber wrote: | | jamsys wrote: | | Dont know if the price diff from the 48 to 56 is worth it... Kal is the only guy that can give me a true report |
Kal may not be able to give you a report on the value of the 56 over the 48, unless he was able to see and test them somewhere already.
But in one sense, he's already answered that question for you, Scott, since he certainly could have picked up a 48 for less, yet bought the 56 instead. |
This discussion of "value" pops up elsewhere quite frequently, and something that I think most people miss as a premise is that "value" is a different proposition from person to person. It hinges upon a person's disposable income, their personal outlook on spending money, and their personal perceptions of the performance differences between pieces of A/V gear. There is a relatively small group of people who has no problem dropping 5 or 6 figures on a piece of HT gear; to someone like me that would be ludicrous for me personally. Not because I don't appreciate the extra (granted, usually incremental in most aspects) performance of such gear, and not because I would be averse to spending that kind of money, but because I simply don't have the disposable income. Just look at this forum - most people here are a small but relatively dedicated group that sees value in CRT projectors over LCD, DLP, or LCoS ones for whatever reason. CRT'ers long ago ceased being the "mainstream" video projector group, but you all have your own personal reasons for liking/enjoying CRT over other projection technologies.
I've seen pages of threads where people argue back and forth on the relative perceived value of two very different but related pieces of AV gear. Unless you find someone whose judgement you find closely aligned with your own, relying on others judgement for such a decision can be an exercise in futility.[/i]
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
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| Link Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | ...relying on others judgement for such a decision can be an exercise in futility. |
But exercise is good for you.  And based on some of the discussions seen here, some folks must enjoy it.
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- Tim
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jamsys
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 152
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| Link Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| VideoGrabber wrote: | | jamsys wrote: | | Dont know if the price diff from the 48 to 56 is worth it... Kal is the only guy that can give me a true report |
Kal may not be able to give you a report on the value of the 56 over the 48, unless he was able to see and test them somewhere already.
But in one sense, he's already answered that question for you, Scott, since he certainly could have picked up a 48 for less, yet bought the 56 instead. |
I agree... It seems the only difference I can find is the lumens. Kal has a much bigger screen and light controlled room, where I don't. I was set on the 56, but then was told by a trusted calibrator that a lumagen really should be used instead of my vp50 and that added 2k to the price. It's a matter of money versus performance at this point... Double the lumens for 2k????
Tx for all the comments and happy new year!!
Scott
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
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| Link Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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I just noticed this from the 26th. Not sure if it's just a typo, or if HogPilot had a bit too much Christmas nog.
| HogPilot wrote: | | JVC projectors that use e-Shift are the RS55, RS65, RS46, RS56, and RS66. |
Nope, the -46 does not have e-shift. Perhaps you meant to say -48.
Also you later mentioned one of the big benefits of the e-shift...
| Quote: | | I can happily sit 10' from my 12' wide scope screen, and virtually never be bothered by my RS55's pixel structure with e-Shift engaged (which it always is). |
and I would be curious to know if you have an impression at what distance from your screen that turning e-shift off would no longer yield a perceptible benefit? I.e., I've seen it briefly myself (and reposted closeup shots of it in other threads here), and readily acknowledge it works. But have never had an opportunity to see where the limits of visual acuity come into play.
You're doing 0.83x(!), but what about 1.2x, 1.4x, 1.6x, etc? At some point, I'd suspect you'd no longer be able to tell the diff.
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- Tim
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| VideoGrabber wrote: | I just noticed this from the 26th. Not sure if it's just a typo, or if HogPilot had a bit too much Christmas nog.
| HogPilot wrote: | | JVC projectors that use e-Shift are the RS55, RS65, RS46, RS56, and RS66. |
Nope, the -46 does not have e-shift. Perhaps you meant to say -48. |
You're correct, that was a typo - thanks for catching that.
| VideoGrabber wrote: | Also you later mentioned one of the big benefits of the e-shift and I would be curious to know if you have an impression at what distance from your screen that turning e-shift off would no longer yield a perceptible benefit? I.e., I've seen it briefly myself (and reposted closeup shots of it in other threads here), and readily acknowledge it works. But have never had an opportunity to see where the limits of visual acuity come into play.
You're doing 0.83x(!), but what about 1.2x, 1.4x, 1.6x, etc? At some point, I'd suspect you'd no longer be able to tell the diff. |
Sure, there's always a viewing distance region where the benefits of higher resolution or superior optics become nullified, and eShift is no different. I really didn't bother trying to figure that range out when I was testing my setup because I knew I wanted a close viewing distance, so I evaluated the results of eShift at that distance. Keep in mind that the outcome of such a "test" would be highly dependent upon the visual acuity of the viewer, image brightness, the kind of material viewed, and the type of screen material you're using. Based on what I've read from others, I would say that eShift is useless by 2SW, and should definitely be noticeable at 1SW. Within that region the variables I listed come into play.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| VideoGrabber wrote: | | jamsys wrote: | | Dont know if the price diff from the 48 to 56 is worth it... Kal is the only guy that can give me a true report |
Kal may not be able to give you a report on the value of the 56 over the 48, unless he was able to see and test them somewhere already.
But in one sense, he's already answered that question for you, Scott, since he certainly could have picked up a 48 for less, yet bought the 56 instead. |
It was a bit of a blind buy not only because there's no way I could see the 48 and 56 in some sort of controlled environment but because they're also so new.
So Tim is right: No way could I ever provide judgement on the 48 vs the 56. A lot has to do with the room too (wall reflections), the rest of the setup, what features are important to you, and how much you value an incremental increase in contrast ratio.
Kal
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