CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

CRT_Ben · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 1684 Location: Northern Virginia

I've gone over to the gray side of the Force with a JVC HD250. Some may be familiar with the ongoing issues with the particular Marquee chassis I hung in my theater, leading me to look at digitals, because once the chassis came down it was not going back up.

Epson has 8500UB refurbs at attractive prices, but I had suspicions I wouldn't be fully satisfied with a low native contrast, iris-dependent LCD or DLP, and SDE was a concern - my current room depth is small, leaving the front row much closer to the screen than I would like. That left the JVCs with their high native contrast ratio and fill rate, but I didn't want to expand the budget for the newer generations (RS-40+) even refurb/B-stock, yet I wanted the assurance of a warranty with my first foray into digital PJs. Then, I saw a pretty sweet AVS B-stock deal on a JVC HD250 (which as I understand is a re-release, at a lower price point, of the same machine as the HD350/RS10). I jumped on it the same day and eagerly awaited its arrival. Shipping was a bit of an adventure, but I'll just say AVS took care of me and I am very satisfied.

With one of my sole sources being my Xbox, I wasn't prepared for just how different it would look - to me, the differences are amplified on computer-generated material (Xbox UI, games, animated features) and downplayed on video and film sourced material. It makes logical sense as computer graphics are full of hard edges which clearly bring out the pixel structure, whereas CRT being a touch soft basically provided anti-aliasing for computer graphics. On video/film material I don't notice the pixel structure at all, given real life is nearly devoid of the clean and hard lines of CG. Overall, at least on this front I like the look of CRT better, but I'm quickly getting used to it and it's more different than it is inferior.

Not surprisingly, the black level is noticeably higher than the CRT. That said, in a totally light controlled theater, I used the "Hide" button to black out the picture from a moderately high APL scene - say, a scene shot on a sunny day - and it took counting to 4-mississippi before I could start to make out the screen again. It's definitely not CRT black but it's good enough.

ANSI contrast should be at least 4x higher than the CRT, but I'm having trouble separating that from my impression of "holy brightness, Batman!". All I can say is the image is VERY punchy running "normal" lamp with the manual iris fully open. I have a 7' wide 16:9 Wilsonart (1.3 gain) screen and would literally not want it any brighter right now. I haven't played with the manual iris yet, and I fully expect I could dramatically improve the black level while remaining totally satisfied with the brightness. I am aware the bulb will dim over time, but it came with only a single hour (!) on the lamp counter, my usage is generally light and even if it dimmed by 50% I would still be happy with the light output. At that point it would have been through several years of my typical use, and it would still probably be equal to or brighter than my CRT, not even considering the option of high lamp mode. Replacement bulbs from AVS run $320, so unless the bulb dies prematurely my operating cost should be low, as I won't rack up 2000 hours for 5 years or more.

SDE, or lack of it - of course the pixel structure is visible at the screen, but it is JUST barely visible at my absurdly close front row, which is about .9 screen widths from my 7' screen. By just barely, I mean it has to be a static, uniform white field and I have to stare looking for pixels before I see the pattern. Relaxed and absorbed into video/film or even CG/games, it's a total non issue.

Lastly, I imagine everyone knows about size, weight and noise differences, but I will touch on them as it was a huge part in my decision. I had built a hushbox for my Marquee as the noise - and the heat - were oppressive. Building the hushbox was a nontrivial task and I feel I built it well, and I sealed it at all points with weatherstripping - yet the noise was not nearly as reduced as I had hoped. The hushbox was to vent through my back wall and as such had to span the short (8") gap between the projector and the wall, and the 4" gap between the projector and the ceiling (this was as compact a unistrut mount as I could possibly manage). All this meant that the footprint of the hushbox was a staggering 30" wide, 40" deep, 21" high monstrosity. Yes, yes, this is old news, CRTs utterly dominate most rooms they are in - but that fact still sucks hard, my friends. The JVC is 19"x14"x6.5", sleek and sharp instead of 90's computer beige, and at 19dB in operation it's far quieter than my hushboxed Marquee could hope for. Noise floor is the black level of audio - a high noise floor destroys aural contrast and you lose many subtle details. Even in my Xbox games I'm having a new appreciation for the sound coming from my DCM Timeframes.

Don't think this is CRT bashing. I've tried to stick to facts and observations, and failing that, to note things that are my preference and opinion and may not apply to everybody. I'm merely a satisfied deserter that was driven away foremost by the unreliability of my chosen chassis, and secondly by the noise and presence domination of the CRT. In summation I would say my JVC is, for my tastes, fully the equal of my Marquee 9500LC only with very different strengths and weaknesses. Feel free to ask me questions about anything, and enjoy your chosen display tech...let this not be any kind of versus thread!

Ben

TheVerge · Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 928

The size and noise were crushing to poor folk like me who don't have giant rooms in their homes.

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12026 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Well, it really doesn't take a "giant" room. I have a Marquee 8500 in my HT, which is only about 13' L x 14' W with a little 2' deep bump-out at the center back wall. I sit less than 10' from the screen, which is 1.4x the 85" wide (96" diagonal) screen.

And Ben, maybe it was because the 8500 was SO much quieter than the XG I had before, but I don't have a problem with the 8500's noise. Maybe I run the volume higher than you do -- my hearing ain't what it used to be so I tend to crank it to catch all the dialog.

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

It sounds like someone read Crabb's review. Wink

I am glad you like it. My best friend mentioned the noise level when he received his RS-45 last year. I know Crabb has gushed about how low it is. I just hope you guys don't break these JVCs by trying to restart them. You know like a chick restarting a car. Mr. Green

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

I kinda like the slight noise. its like watching home movies with the 8 mm Pj back in the day. I want nostalgia for my HT experience.

Athanasios

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:29 am Post subject:

Well done review, very unbiased, you Judas Wink

km987654 · Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:58 am Post subject:

Does this mean you will be called "Digital Ben"

CRT_Ben · Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 1684 Location: Northern Virginia

TheVerge - Home size aside, I generally agree it would take a large(r) theater and more importantly, a taller ceiling for me to ignore the size and noise of the CRT.

Gary - That is understandable, as while I've never seen an XG I know the jet-engine reputation well. I will just say that the difference between your Marquee and virtual silence that the digital offers is perhaps far greater than the XG to the Marquee Wink

Spanky - I have definitely read Crabb's thoughts on his projector with interest! I can say though this is not a copy / paste job, but rather observations that came to the same conclusion about the importance of the audio side of home theater. I never knew the shells from my gun in Halo, for example, made noise as they fell and hit the landscape...that was totally lost on me. Is this particular fact of great importance? No, but I was missing similar details across all content, and that is important. And being a mechanic's son, I have definitely never tried to start a car already running!! I've been in one though where the driver did so...it's painful! Smile

Nash - Whatever is right for you, my friend, is right! The particular theater experience you desire is the end goal and however you reach it just doesn't matter.

Analog - How little do you guess that I treat your post as high praise Very Happy

KM - Yes, probably. Kal, do you allow ID changes? Razz

Thanks all for reading. Hopefully my observations help someone in whatever decision they will make.

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10273

stridsvognen · Guest

Great news Ben... More cheep CRT parts for us whos left. Thumbs Up

. To bad you live so far away, or i would have traded my JVC X7 for your CRT .. Razz

**kal** · Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject:

Audiophile · Joined: 23 Jun 2012 Posts: 29 Location: Manassas, VA

Good review, thanks Ben. I also recently went from a CRT (Sony 1272Q) that I have had for 10 years in my theater to a JVC RS40U. I was doing the upgrade for a sharper picture mostly but you are right, the super low fan noise of the JVCs really brings film audio to life. I will say this, open up a CRT projector and the amount of engineering is still impressive to this day. Looking inside you see why they were $20K+ new. Thumbs Up