CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

rtart · Joined: 16 Jun 2008 Posts: 118

Hi guys,

I've had this issue pretty much since installation, and it doesn't seem to be getting worse, so I don't think its a component 'drift' issue. However, I'm not sure what it could be.

Here's the issue: I turn on the whole system and the PJ covergence is off slightly - just the amount that Point changes. I can turn off the pj and then back on (while all other gear stays on) - everything is fine.

I run HDMI sources through my Onkyo PR-SC886 controller (to strip audio), then a DVDO VP30 (for gamma adjustment), and through a HDFury1 to the PJ.

Any ideas? Maybe dying caps on the Point board?

Boilermaker · Joined: 21 May 2006 Posts: 527

Soinds like it could be one of two things:

1 - Check that you only have one input in memory at that particular resolution/refresh rate.

2 - Most likely a bad contact on your point board. Pull the board out, clean the contacts and treat them with a contact enhancer such as Deoxit or Cramolin, slide it back in and out a number of times and see if that doesn't work.

Bob

Aussie_Al · Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 20

I'd reckon Tinman would know best....He's an NEC Guru and previous 10PG owner/tweaker Wink

Edit- Although try bob's recommended suggestions first too

rtart · Joined: 16 Jun 2008 Posts: 118

rtart · Joined: 16 Jun 2008 Posts: 118

Aussie_Al · Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 20

Yeah Id say 10PG owners are as rare as Rocking Horse sh*t these days, I'd love to see a direct comparison to an XG though. Did you throw the guts of an Xtra in your 10PG??

Boilermaker · Joined: 21 May 2006 Posts: 527

You are not the last - My daughter has one that I gave to her, and I'll probably keep it running until the tubes are totally worn out!

Bob

rtart · Joined: 16 Jun 2008 Posts: 118

No, never did. I had a 9PGxTra before the 10PG and did notice sharper focus in the corners with the xtra. However, Tinman's expertise was obviously well in excess of mine. I was afraid to jeopardize a working unit by yanking out most of it's innards to 'hopefully' improve PQ.

I had a neighbor with an XG and found my 10PG to be brighter and can run at 1080P. His was running at 720P. Certainly a nice picture, but the 9" tubes made the difference.

gjaky · Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 922 Location: Budapest, Hungary

A guy from Germany called Hansilili recently (maybe in the last year) turned a 10PG to a 10PG+ as well.

rtart · Joined: 16 Jun 2008 Posts: 118

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 1956 Location: QLD, Australia

My 9PG did that exact same thing, and its basically the same set with smaller tubes. If you tried to change the POINT while it was like this it would sometimes say POINT COMMUNICATION ERROR, other times it might come up with the cross coarse and do nothing.

You dont need to turn it off and back on though, just press the 1 key on the remote to switch to video input, then press 2 to switch back to RGB input, and that should fix it.

Clean the board connectors and the connectors on the mother board where it all connects. Pull all 3 boards out and do it. While you have them out, check all the caps on the 3 boards, cause they are likely all needing replacement if they havent been done. If there are the little short fat black capacitors still on there, they have been leaking on every PG board ive seen them on.

mc86 · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:40 am Post subject:

Sorry for my ignorance and this follow-up tangent, but I'm still learning non-Ehome timelines, models, etc.

So the 9"LC 10PG machines were made until Apr-96 and THEN the 8"XGs were made starting in Sept-96 and were done using a smaller chassis such that conversion to 9" was very tricky. Strange.

I just read on another thread about converting these about how Doug B said he saw a prototype for a 9"XG -- Did NEC run out of time and money / management decide development costs weren't worth it? I guess if Dwin and Zenith stopped at 7" and ampro would stop by 2000, NEC must had also decided to put their money elsewhere even back around '95. That was 17 freaking years ago...gotta love the CRTs that just keep going. I had an NEC 486 DX66 chassis at work from 1991 that ran Win 3.51 for our FTIR until about 18months ago - fantastically engineered and built. Now a late 90s dell pulling the load running Win95. Wink

Matt

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 1956 Location: QLD, Australia

NEC are far from being out of money. They still make some exceptional displays ( if you can call flat panels that... )

The 9PG and 10PG are pretty much the same electrically speaking, however the 10PG is not the same chassis, its far bigger than a 9PG. You couldnt convert a 9PG to a 10PG if you had hoped to fit the tubes inside the case.

So it makes perfect sense they made the XG smaller than the 10PG. The XG is still larger than the 6 and 9 PGs.

gjaky · Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 922 Location: Budapest, Hungary

The 10PG was built upon the chassis of the ancient GP-5000 (from the '80s) but the the electronics were borrowed from the 9PG plain, as Case said. And you can't find a single board in an XG which would be compatible with a PG.
Back then there were much less difference in utilization of 8" and 9" projectors since very few computer was capable to produce that high resolution which would benefit from the capabilities of a 9" tube, NEC realized this and produced 8" machines which were always cheaper to produce

rtart · Joined: 16 Jun 2008 Posts: 118

Thought I had a copy of the Service manual. Maybe I let it go when I sold my 9PGxTRA. I was SURE I had a downloaded copy, but can't find it. I've got original hardcopies of the Install and User manuals and the 10PG addendum.

In any case, I'm embarassed to admit that I can't find the Point board. Which one is it?

gjaky · Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 922 Location: Budapest, Hungary

It is in the metal cage between the green and blue tube along with thw system board and wave board, the point board is the farthest from the deflection board.

rtart · Joined: 16 Jun 2008 Posts: 118

rtart · Joined: 16 Jun 2008 Posts: 118

Pulled it, along with the other boards in the cage, cleaned them all up. I checked all the caps with a flashlight and magnifying glass, but no leakers that I could see. Kind of surprising, but this unit was really low time when I bought it a few years ago, so maybe I'm lucky.

Turned on the PJ and no smoke, sparks or burning smell, so we'll see if it solved my problem.

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 1956 Location: QLD, Australia

Are they the original short little fat 100uF caps on that point board?? If so, they MUST be replaced, you cant see them leak til its allready done damage.

rtart · Joined: 16 Jun 2008 Posts: 118

I'm at the point of doing one of two things:

1) Replace all the caps on all the boards in hopes of preventing future problems and extending the life of my PJ, or;

2) Run it until it fails, try to fix it, and if not possible, replace it with a 'dark-side' unit.

I'm leaning toward option #1 since the chance of breaking something that still works is real, and the chance of being able to repair or replace a board after it fails seems to be pretty good. I'd sure hate to spend the time and money to replace a bunch of caps and find that I've killed my unit. Especially since it works now.

My PJ is a low time unit and was purchased from the original owner. It is 16 years old, but still works very well, has pristine tubes, and has a great picture. Weighing the price/hassle factors against each other, and adding in the improvements and cost reductions in digital PJs recently, I think I'll take this road.

However, I'm no expert, and don't really fully understand the risk vs. value proposition of replacing a few caps. I've done board level component replacement in the past and could be persuaded by those with more knowledge of what is involved.

Specifically, what is the probably of screwing up a functioning board by doing cap replacement?

Are replacement boards available if/when mine fail? I understand that some 9PG boards will work in my 10PG. I have a power supply board from a scrapped 9PGxTRA, but gave away the other boards with the understanding that the other boards would not work in my 10PG. Was I wrong?

Thanks to all for their assistance and advice, BTW.