CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

nombz · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 105 Location: Stockholm, Sweden

I am trying to go to 72Hz 1080p with my BarcoGraphics 1209s/E.
I am using a HTPC with Powerstrip so I have full control (does not mean I know exactly what I am doing Smile

) of porches etc.

For 1080p 48Hz I have been able to get a full screen (with good phospor usage) but now when I step up to 72Hz I cannot really get the picture to fill the screen. I am guessing it is the raster width that is to narrow and I believe that because of two reasons (hope I am right)
1) When I increase blanking from the left, I immediately start to impact the actual picture.
2) When I adjust the phase, the picture disappears behind a "invisible edge" to the left.

Am I right in assuming that my problem is the raster width?

I read that I might need to adjust a pot somewhere to increase the raster width for higher frequencies, how do I know that I am using the high frequency "functionality"?

What would be reasonable porches to have for 1080p72Hz? I have tried between 6 and 120 for front porch and about the same for back porch, but still cannot get the picture fully to the left.

opv · Joined: 18 May 2010 Posts: 141 Location: Emek Hefer,Israel

Is your H-width set to 100?
If the answer is no, then turn it up and see if that solves the problem.
If the answer is yes, the problem might be the raster width, but I suggest you play with the porches first before you change the raster width.

nombz · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 105 Location: Stockholm, Sweden

opv · Joined: 18 May 2010 Posts: 141 Location: Emek Hefer,Israel

In my 1209s, I adjust the picture width of all the colors together using the H/width pot on the SMPS, not separate ones per color.

nombz · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 105 Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Ile · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject:

Sounds too small horizontal porches to me. Porches add unused area to rasters edges, actual picture is leaved as is.

I used these 1080p72 timings in my BG1200.

Horizontal
Front porch 140
Sync width 100
Back porch 240

Vertical
Front porch 10
Sync width 10
Back porch 40

You can also try smaller horizontal back porch, but it could cause raster ringing (vertical bars) to left side of the picture.

First adjust Hwidth so that you can see whole raster. Then adjust Hphase so that actual picture is pretty close to right edge of the raster. Then center actual picture to tubes and adjust Hwidth. Now if you can't fill tubes with actual picture you need to trim master width pot from smps doughter board.

Raster width coils adjust more horizontal linearity than rasters width with high resolutions. Those are pretty useless, I have actually thought about removing those to see if that helps to get rid of raster ringing. Very Happy

Then back porch could be reduced and that means less stress for horizontal deflection and also bit sharper picture.

nombz · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 105 Location: Stockholm, Sweden

secstate · Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 718

In my experience later Barco 120x series have issues with horizontal width size at higher resolutions and refresh rates. The two solutions I have found are. One if a Graphics (versus Data) you can adjust the cut over to the high scan mode this solves the width problem but at least on my 1208s/2 Graphics introduced some pretty severe ringing on the left side of the screen. Two, bring the electronic width adjustment down some what from max (say 85 or 90) and adjust the horizontal width pot on the SMPS to fill up the screen. Note that the potential issue with number two is that some of the 120x S series Barcos had an issue in the SMPS that would cause the horizontal instability which is seen as a brief collapse of the horizontal width (almost like a blink) and this is made worse as you push the width with that pot. Hopefully your /E is new enough it does not have this issue (it was corrected fairly late in the model run). I think Curt has the TSB for this issue on his side under the 120x documents.

I have a Runco 1209s Data clone and so I don't have high scan so I use option two. My Runco manufactured in May 2000 has the fixed SMPS and I have done option two and it works perfectly.

nombz · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 105 Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Thanks for those options!

I definitively have the ringing issue already with 1080p48Hz. Maybe a solution would be to reduce the threshold for "high scan mode" to make sure that 1080p48Hz and 1080p72Hz is within the same mode (high) and then adjust the SMPS raster width to work with that?

nombz · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 105 Location: Stockholm, Sweden

So now I have adjusted the P2 and actually set it to max. This means that with a Hsize of about 80 I can fill the screen (and keep the picture of the phosphor edge) nicely.

Now all I need to do is go through the electronic setup again (well, to be honset I have needed to touch convergence etc for probably 2 years now, this thing is rock stable).

It will be interesting to see what 72Hz will do with the picture. Focus is still very, very good in the middle (without even touching convergence/focus yet, I spent a lot of time getting the physical setup right).

Thanks for your help and I hope I havent done anything stupid in maxing the P2 out? I am very careful to make sure picture is never outside the phosphor.

secstate · Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 718

Ile · Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject:

nombz · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 105 Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Thanks a lot Ile!

I was pretty sure raster width was not affected by porches but there you go, you learn something every day Smile

So what I should really do is make sure I have a resolution with the porches I want (along the lines you recommended) before I set Hsize to 95 and adjust the master width pot. From my understanding small porches are good as long as you dont run into the ringing on the left side (which I definitely had with my 1080p48Hz setup).

I tried the porches you recommended but it looks like I got into problem somewhere in my digital chain because I got strange red lines that looked pretty much like stuff I seen when using a too long HDMI cable. Probably because I reached a too high bandwidth. Which part of my chain is creating these effects I dont know. I have a HTPC with DVI-HDMI cable (3m long) to a HDFury 3 and from there the short cable to input 5 (but I am pretty sure the problems are on the digital side).

Ile · Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:09 am Post subject:

nombz · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 105 Location: Stockholm, Sweden

I have played around some more and I do not really see that I have ringing (which is vertical "lines" to the left) even though I am using much smaller porches than you.

My problem is really that to the left I seem to have what I am guessing is phenomena related to controling the beam. Horizontal lines are slightly wavy (more the more to the left you look). I seem to remember Guy Kuo at some point said something about the beam needed "time" to be stable. I think that is what I might be seeing.
If I rastershift the raster to the left and then hphase the picture to the right it is much reduced. From the discussions here and your input Ile I guess I should really be able to do that type of adjustment with front and back porches. My theory was that if I have more front porch that should push the picture to the right, but I cannot really get that into practice.

I have done as recommended and adjusted the master width pot while having Hsize set to 95. I guess that means I am somewhat "safer" with new settings (although I will not use almost anything else than 1080p72 from now on).

BTW, I cant believe how well the 1209s/E maintains focus in 72hz, I feel like I have lost some serious movietime in using 48Hz. Motion is much "smoother" (but that it not really what is it) and picture more stable. But I do not think I have lost any focus at all. Really love it so far!

Ile · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:53 am Post subject:

nombz · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 105 Location: Stockholm, Sweden

nombz · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 105 Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Just as a follow-up on this one (if anyone except me cares:) ).

I was able to get the 1920x1080x72Hz with the Hdfury 3 but with the timings much shorter than suggested here.

However, since the digital path (unclear to me what, but looks like the hdfury3 is causing this) wasnt able to handle 1920x1080x72Hz without obvious problems (red lines appearing random across the screen) I was encoured to try using VGA.

With VGA I use timings much larger and more like the once recommended here.

Notice my surprise when I saw how much better and stable the picture was using VGA than the hdfury 3 (that is really another story that I hope the hdfury guys can help me answer on that forum http://dme.ghost2.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25474&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=). The image is now... truly stunning.
Removing the hdfury(I have been using nothing but hdfury instead of VGA since before hdfury got its name...) and going to 72Hz is as much upgrade for as it was going from the 1208s to the colorfiltered 1209s. A pretty big and very apparent difference.