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Pre-Purchase Questions

 
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bobkbusch



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:03 pm    Post subject: Pre-Purchase Questions Reply with quote


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Hi,

I would like to purchase ChromaPure Standard to calibrate my plasma and front projector. I have a few questions first, if you don't mind. (I emailed Curt, but saw he recommends posting in his forum to get faster answers.)

I currently own a Spyder 3 colorimeter and I've read enough to know it isn't ideal. I have a friend willing to make a great deal on a 2004 vintage i1 Pro spectrophotometer, which I've read is accurate except at low light levels.

Here are my questions:

1) If I purchase ChromaPure and use the i1 Pro as the reference meter using the "Meter Correction" function and the Spyder 3 as the "field" meter, will I need only one "license file," the one for the Spyder 3?

2) Would the Spyder 3 now be an "accurate" meter for calibrations, but perhaps slow?

3) This site lists the i1 Display 3 as the best bang for the buck meter currently, and (the “Pro” version) as being better than the i1 Pro at luminance and perhaps white balance and color accuracy. If I purchased an i1 Display 3, and used an i1 Pro spectrophotometer to create an “offset” file using the “Meter Correction” function of ChromaPure, would this be the same as using an i1 Display 3 “Pro?”

Thanks for your time!

edit: Tom already answered my questions in another venue...THANKS!
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will need to get the probes added. I haven't looked at the order page but I think one license is given and then you pay for added Probes. You will have to send Tom the serial numbers from the probes for him to create the license for each probe. He is very quick about it as well.

The S3 will be fine once calibrated against the i1 Pro which from my own experience will most likely be very accurate even with its age. I have tested a few older version against my recently certified i1 pro and they were all dead on, even a 2005 i tired that was never checked before.

Athanasios

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15868
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

Tom may have already answered but I always like to close the loop in case someone else is reading/searching:

[quote]1) If I purchase ChromaPure and use the i1 Pro as the reference meter using the "Meter Correction" function and the Spyder 3 as the "field" meter, will I need only one "license file," the one for the Spyder 3? [/quote[

You need two licences since ChromaPure needs to work with both meters.

$180 for the ChromaPure Standard software includes 1 licence. Additional licences are $90. So your total is $270 USD.
These are CurtPalme.com discounted prices.

To order see: http://www.curtpalme.com/ChromaPure.shtm

Quote:
2) Would the Spyder 3 now be an "accurate" meter for calibrations, but perhaps slow?

Yes, assuming it hasn't drifted way way off so that it's unusable, doing it this way should make it accurate.

Quote:
3) This site lists the i1 Display 3 as the best bang for the buck meter currently, and (the “Pro” version) as being better than the i1 Pro at luminance and perhaps white balance and color accuracy. If I purchased an i1 Display 3, and used an i1 Pro spectrophotometer to create an “offset” file using the “Meter Correction” function of ChromaPure, would this be the same as using an i1 Display 3 “Pro?”

Probably pretty close for real world purposes. The spectro used when creating the "pro" version offsets is a $10K meter so it will be more accurate than the i1 Pro. Again, for home theatre use I'd say it's fine. The i1Pro / Display 3 combo's a good one since you now have the means the always have a very fast reading accurate colorimeter by always using the i1 Pro before you do a calibration to first calibrate the Display 3.

If you're interested in adding a Display 3 (meter only) after already owning ChromaPure email us at ChromaPure@CurtPalme.com and I'll assist and provide pricing.

Thanks for the interest and good luck!

P.S. A lot of people say that for home use the i1 Pro is fine even though it reads slow. The general comment is that "I'm not in a hurry - this is for home use". The problem is that at low light output levels it's *really* *really* slow. I mean, painfully slow. For the low price of adding a Display 3 meter it's worth it (in my humble opinion).

Kal

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bobkbusch



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, thank you for the follow up! Your answers pretty much echo Tom's.

Tom also mentioned the possibility of using another software package to take readings with the i1Pro and enter them manually into the "Meter Correction" page of the ChromaPure software. This would allow me to create the offset file for my "field" meter that is licensed without having to pay an additional license fee for the i1Pro, just to use it as a reference meter.

Guess I will play around with that and see how "kludgy" that is before purchasing an additional license.

Thanks again!
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobkbusch wrote:
Kal, thank you for the follow up! Your answers pretty much echo Tom's.

Tom also mentioned the possibility of using another software package to take readings with the i1Pro and enter them manually into the "Meter Correction" page of the ChromaPure software. This would allow me to create the offset file for my "field" meter that is licensed without having to pay an additional license fee for the i1Pro, just to use it as a reference meter.

Guess I will play around with that and see how "kludgy" that is before purchasing an additional license.

Thanks again!


Yes you can use HCFR to get the matrix reading for the i1 Pro and transfer them for the Spyder 3 in Chromapure.

Never thought of that...its a good idea!!!

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Last edited by Nashou66 on Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TomHuffman



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 73
Location: Springfield, MO


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Yes you can use HCFR to get the matrix reading for the i1 Pro and transfer them for the Spyder 3 in Chromapure.

Never thought of that...its a good idea!!!
You don't transfer the correction matrix. CP creates its own matrix internally. You just need to copy the xy values for RGBW.
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ChromaPure calibration software & meter packages at CurtPalme.com discounted prices!
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomHuffman wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:
Yes you can use HCFR to get the matrix reading for the i1 Pro and transfer them for the Spyder 3 in Chromapure.

Never thought of that...its a good idea!!!
You don't transfer the correction matrix. CP creates its own matrix internally. You just need to copy the xy values for RGBW.


Right, thats what I meant to say . Wink


Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when looking some links like this and other.. http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ChromapureSampleDetailedReport.pdf

I don't see any data from 0-20IRE and the gamma curve just look like a average gamma. Is it possible to make a full report with 0-100IRE and all 3 colors displayed in the gamma curve.?

I'm using HCFR today, and want to be sure I'm not running into any limitations buying CromaPure.
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TomHuffman



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 73
Location: Springfield, MO


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when looking some links like this and other.. http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ChromapureSampleDetailedReport.pdf

I don't see any data from 0-20IRE and the gamma curve just look like a average gamma. Is it possible to make a full report with 0-100IRE and all 3 colors displayed in the gamma curve.?

I'm using HCFR today, and want to be sure I'm not running into any limitations buying CromaPure.
There is no gamma at 0% and 100%. The most recent versions of ChromaPure include data at 10% in the Detailed Report. RGB gamma just repeats the information already available from the grayscale data.
_________________
ChromaPure calibration software & meter packages at CurtPalme.com discounted prices!
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomHuffman wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when looking some links like this and other.. http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ChromapureSampleDetailedReport.pdf

I don't see any data from 0-20IRE and the gamma curve just look like a average gamma. Is it possible to make a full report with 0-100IRE and all 3 colors displayed in the gamma curve.?

I'm using HCFR today, and want to be sure I'm not running into any limitations buying CromaPure.
There is no gamma at 0% and 100%. The most recent versions of ChromaPure include data at 10% in the Detailed Report. RGB gamma just repeats the information already available from the grayscale data.


Where do i see gamma on green from 5-20% ? I don't see any data under 20% IRE in the RGB.
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TomHuffman



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 73
Location: Springfield, MO


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
TomHuffman wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when looking some links like this and other.. http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ChromapureSampleDetailedReport.pdf

I don't see any data from 0-20IRE and the gamma curve just look like a average gamma. Is it possible to make a full report with 0-100IRE and all 3 colors displayed in the gamma curve.?

I'm using HCFR today, and want to be sure I'm not running into any limitations buying CromaPure.
There is no gamma at 0% and 100%. The most recent versions of ChromaPure include data at 10% in the Detailed Report. RGB gamma just repeats the information already available from the grayscale data.


Where do i see gamma on green from 5-20% ? I don't see any data under 20% IRE in the RGB.
As I said, we extended it to 10% for the report in a recent build. CurtPalme simply hasn't updated their screen shots. It goes down to as far as 5% in the application itself.
_________________
ChromaPure calibration software & meter packages at CurtPalme.com discounted prices!
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stridsvognen
Guest







PostLink    Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomHuffman wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
TomHuffman wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when looking some links like this and other.. http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ChromapureSampleDetailedReport.pdf

I don't see any data from 0-20IRE and the gamma curve just look like a average gamma. Is it possible to make a full report with 0-100IRE and all 3 colors displayed in the gamma curve.?

I'm using HCFR today, and want to be sure I'm not running into any limitations buying CromaPure.
There is no gamma at 0% and 100%. The most recent versions of ChromaPure include data at 10% in the Detailed Report. RGB gamma just repeats the information already available from the grayscale data.


Where do i see gamma on green from 5-20% ? I don't see any data under 20% IRE in the RGB.
As I said, we extended it to 10% for the report in a recent build. CurtPalme simply hasn't updated their screen shots. It goes down to as far as 5% in the application itself.


Sorry if its my english, but i didn't find the exact answer i was looking for.

Can i get the exact gamma value on each color from 5% and up

Example.

5% Gamma

RED 2,24
GREEN 2,31
BLUE 2,21
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TomHuffman



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 73
Location: Springfield, MO


PostLink    Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
TomHuffman wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
TomHuffman wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when looking some links like this and other.. http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ChromapureSampleDetailedReport.pdf

I don't see any data from 0-20IRE and the gamma curve just look like a average gamma. Is it possible to make a full report with 0-100IRE and all 3 colors displayed in the gamma curve.?

I'm using HCFR today, and want to be sure I'm not running into any limitations buying CromaPure.
There is no gamma at 0% and 100%. The most recent versions of ChromaPure include data at 10% in the Detailed Report. RGB gamma just repeats the information already available from the grayscale data.


Where do i see gamma on green from 5-20% ? I don't see any data under 20% IRE in the RGB.
As I said, we extended it to 10% for the report in a recent build. CurtPalme simply hasn't updated their screen shots. It goes down to as far as 5% in the application itself.


Sorry if its my english, but i didn't find the exact answer i was looking for.

Can i get the exact gamma value on each color from 5% and up

Example.

5% Gamma

RED 2,24
GREEN 2,31
BLUE 2,21
As I said, RGB gamma is the same as RGB white balance, which we report all the way down to 5%. If white balance is correct at, then the RGB gamma will be balanced at 5% as well. What overall level the gamma is at (2.2 vs. 2.35) depends on the level of luminance, not RGB values. There is no advantage to knowing that at 5% gamma is
RED 2,24
GREEN 2,31
BLUE 2,21
as opposed to knowing that at 5% white balance is
RED 103%
GREEN 100%
BLUE 101%

and overall gamma is, say 2.25.

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ChromaPure calibration software & meter packages at CurtPalme.com discounted prices!
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stridsvognen
Guest







PostLink    Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomHuffman wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
TomHuffman wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
TomHuffman wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when looking some links like this and other.. http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ChromapureSampleDetailedReport.pdf

I don't see any data from 0-20IRE and the gamma curve just look like a average gamma. Is it possible to make a full report with 0-100IRE and all 3 colors displayed in the gamma curve.?

I'm using HCFR today, and want to be sure I'm not running into any limitations buying CromaPure.
There is no gamma at 0% and 100%. The most recent versions of ChromaPure include data at 10% in the Detailed Report. RGB gamma just repeats the information already available from the grayscale data.


Where do i see gamma on green from 5-20% ? I don't see any data under 20% IRE in the RGB.
As I said, we extended it to 10% for the report in a recent build. CurtPalme simply hasn't updated their screen shots. It goes down to as far as 5% in the application itself.


Sorry if its my english, but i didn't find the exact answer i was looking for.

Can i get the exact gamma value on each color from 5% and up

Example.

5% Gamma

RED 2,24
GREEN 2,31
BLUE 2,21
As I said, RGB gamma is the same as RGB white balance, which we report all the way down to 5%. If white balance is correct at, then the RGB gamma will be balanced at 5% as well. What overall level the gamma is at (2.2 vs. 2.35) depends on the level of luminance, not RGB values.


So the answer to exact gamma value on each color is NO ?
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TomHuffman



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 73
Location: Springfield, MO


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
TomHuffman wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
TomHuffman wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
TomHuffman wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when looking some links like this and other.. http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ChromapureSampleDetailedReport.pdf

I don't see any data from 0-20IRE and the gamma curve just look like a average gamma. Is it possible to make a full report with 0-100IRE and all 3 colors displayed in the gamma curve.?

I'm using HCFR today, and want to be sure I'm not running into any limitations buying CromaPure.
There is no gamma at 0% and 100%. The most recent versions of ChromaPure include data at 10% in the Detailed Report. RGB gamma just repeats the information already available from the grayscale data.


Where do i see gamma on green from 5-20% ? I don't see any data under 20% IRE in the RGB.
As I said, we extended it to 10% for the report in a recent build. CurtPalme simply hasn't updated their screen shots. It goes down to as far as 5% in the application itself.


Sorry if its my english, but i didn't find the exact answer i was looking for.

Can i get the exact gamma value on each color from 5% and up

Example.

5% Gamma

RED 2,24
GREEN 2,31
BLUE 2,21
As I said, RGB gamma is the same as RGB white balance, which we report all the way down to 5%. If white balance is correct at, then the RGB gamma will be balanced at 5% as well. What overall level the gamma is at (2.2 vs. 2.35) depends on the level of luminance, not RGB values.


So the answer to exact gamma value on each color is NO ?
That's correct. We treat color and luminance separately. Since you obviously care a lot about RGB gamma, can you explain to me what application it has for your work?
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it looks like a finer tool than the RGB white balance, its like the Gamma curve is reacting to much smaller changes, when i really get close to a good balance.

When i look other calibrations i see that not many spend time controlling the 10% so often i se the colors are split up coming from up and down the scale, after to be fairly controlled around 30% IRE.

What it looks like to me is that there is always some kind of ringing to the regulating part, like all other kinds of regulation. And controlling that ringing to the curve right after coming out of black makes me very happy. Wink

And thats what the gamma curve with al 3 colors help me do. I think it can be quite impossible to see if the ringing to a color out of 0% is starting from up or down, and finds often that i adjust the wrong direction.

Don't know if it makes any sense, but thats how it looks like to me at the moment. Embarassed
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