CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

km987654 · Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject:

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

Dave,
I have asked you before what you are basing your assertion that a CRT has worse on/off than a JVC. If it is William Phelps, then you are way off the mark. I know Darin has taken him to task on that set up. Darin measured a gamma modded G70 at over 100k to 1 on/off. Ken Whitcomb has done the same. When you say it is worse, then I would like to see your proof.

As for motion, that is dependent on the individual. I remember Darin asked me at Infocomm why I liked CRT better than the Projection Digital dlp we were watching (a $20k pj at the time). I replied I couldn't explain it to him, but it was just the way it looked. Later on, I realized that it was motion resolution or lack there of with digitals. It was quite interesting to watch Scott demonstrate the moving car resolution test with VDC's LED dlp. With black insertion off, you cannot read the license plate. With it on, one can easily read it.

Having said this, I should say that my main pj is a Marantz 4001 dlp. I have been watching it for almost a year now. It does have a lot of positive characteristics, but I still see the lack of on/off and motion. There are a lot of times where I would love to be watching one of four 909s, G90 or G70 (in that order:)) for those two attributes. I agree with you that lumens are addictive and I love the Marantz for this. For me at least, I can compensate for this with a Vutec like UHG Torus. On a screen like this, I can get over 20 ft/lmbs on a 45" high screen (either 16x9 or scope). When a lot of the digital pjs start to implement black frame insertion (especially if JVC does it), then CRT will lose one more of its advantages.

Of course having said all of that, unfortunately I would probably sell the four 909s and G90 to first person who offered me $10k for the whole lot. I would then sell the Marantz and pick up a RS40. It looks like I won't be in a position to install a CRT anytime in the near future, so I might be in for digital future whether I like it or not. Embarassed

mp20748 · Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject:

km987654 · Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject:

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:27 am Post subject:

Oh, you had to bring that JVC 4k up, didn't you? OMG... I'm getting all juicy just thinking about it... Mmmmmmmmmmm.... Hell, that's reason enough alone to make the trip to Indy this year!!!

Wink

SC

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

Five months and counting. Wink

Hopefully they will have some more native 4k material.

Jeremy112 · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2645 Location: Fond du Lac, WI

Well, the projector wont be here until Teusday (hopefully in the one peice I bought it in!)

So I have until that time to defend the reason I purchased the projector:P

I didn't buy it because I hate CRT, or CRT is too hard to work on, or even because I thought it would be close to CRT (I was just curious more or less)

I bought this projector for the pure simple fact that its 1080p, 25lbs, and can virtually be put anywhere and go anywhere I need it to be. The VPL-VW50 is a replacement for the excuse of a projector VPL-BW7 I bought new (for the same price as the VW50...)

if the VW50 has 2-3 times better image than the BW7, that is all I am looking for. I'm not trying to impress people with it in the slightest.

So Dave, if my reasoning behind the purchase of this digital monstrosity doesn't jive with your opinions, then too bad, its not your money its mine. Smile

Your ultimate opinion of what projectors are good (to you) and for whatever reason, is just that, your opinion.

If you don't like the digital I bought, go on AVS and slam the people that buy the cheap digitals and think they are the best thing ever. I have enough experience in display technology to know the pros and cons of most display tech. I don't need to be told what to buy Smile

TheVerge · Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 928

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12026 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Yes, it's ridiculous to think that a small on-screen picture, on an uncalibrated monitor, run through a digital camera with unknown compression algorithms, taken in non-ideal conditions, could give anything but a vague idea of what the screen actually looks like.

If you zoomed in on a small portion of the screen, then your monitor could at least have the resolution to represent it accurately, and the camera is less likely to add noticeable compression artifacts. But it's still a poor substitute for eyes in front of the screen.

Jeremy112 · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2645 Location: Fond du Lac, WI

Well I received the VPL-VW50 yesterday and spent the better part of the 10 hours after that watching it.

My very first impression when I turned it on and saw the computer signal through HDMI was "I think the CRT is better." And it is overall.

However, the VPL-VW50 does have a very nice image that is, IMHO easily watchable, ONCE the colors are calibrated.. They were absolutely horrible when I turned it on, and I think thats why I thought my NEC PG Xtra was better.

I spent so far about 5 of the 10 hours working on the color, and I have it pretty good without using a disc or anything else besides eyeing it up.

The lack of Screen Door Effect is extremely nice, its what gives it the most CRT like feature. The problem I still mainly have with most digitals that use multiple panels/chips is they are usually off convergence by a pixel or more.

I was not so lucky in getting one thats perfectly aligned. The Blue chip is off by 2 pixels vertically and the red is off by 1 pixel to the right, still with full 1080p chips it is hardly noticable at even 4ft viewing distance, and at normal distance, really isnt visible at all.

Another thing I noticed right away viewing the VPL-VW50 is the response time. Though barely noticable as well, I still managed to spot it right away, as would any trained CRT eye Wink

Overall the unit is a very nice machine. Dead silent, not a major space heater, nice look, and plenty of inputs. The image it produces (to me,) looks great for a digital, what more do you want from a $500 projector?

The only thing I didn't like using on this projector (and I had it on my VPL-AW15 a few years ago), is the Auto Iris. I can easily see it adjusting and it is more annoying to me than having slightly brighter blacks. The blacks could be a bit better, but I think for a digital they are pretty damn good.

So theres my opinion on it, I feel it was worth the $500 with a brand new bulb. Though as I have said before, if this is sub par for most of you, I can only imagine what a JVC RS60 must be like...

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10273

Doesn't the VW50 have the means for digital convergence like the VW60? How gray is the BL?

Jeremy112 · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2645 Location: Fond du Lac, WI

the VW60 can converge the LCoS panels?? If it can, the 50 cant, have yet to find a setting for that in the menu.

The blacks arent really gray, but they arent black either, Id say they look like very dark charcoal black type grays. I don't use the auto iris because on scenes where theres fire or anything really bright it looks like a flare just lit up inside the projector.

I have the auto iris set to off most of the time or manual when watching a movie (I have it right around 50).

So does the VW60 have LCoS panel convergences abilities??

audioalexander · Joined: 02 Dec 2011 Posts: 5

I also think you'll be dissapointed in the black level performance..especially coming from a CRT background. You'll be going "gray screen" if you do, otherwise you'll REALLY suffer! - lol. I picked up a JVC HD350 (RS10) for $999 as a demo model. Black level about as good as you'll ever get for under $1k used, and otherwise world class image with dark room, white screen, dark wall color, etc. All else will leave you more money and questionable "iris controlled" black levels. ...including Sony vw50

Jeremy112 · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2645 Location: Fond du Lac, WI

I'm surprised to see that this topic got any attention since april.

And guess what all you digital Haters>> Thats right the bulb has burned out!! AT A WHOPPING 552 HOURS! Now, given the fact that unless I spend $380 on a Sony bulb, Ill be spending $120 every 6 months, which would quickly add up to WAY WAY more than any CRT projector.

I was dissapointed that the bulb went so quickly, but that is the deisgn of digital. I have takent the pearl down from the ceiling and in place I have put my NEC 9PG Xtra into action.

now if the 9PG Xtra was running at 1080p, I would say that it would easily blow away my Pearl, hell it still does with the colors and smooth flowing image.

The Pearl had 2 main pros, Ease of setup, and it was sharper than my CRT PJs, but that literally is where it ends.

So yes, I have learned my lesson (once again) as to why CRT is better...

At least I wont have to worry about replacing tubes every 6 months Razz

TheVerge · Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 928

Damn that sucks, hope my vw60 bulb lasts longer.

Jeremy112 · Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2645 Location: Fond du Lac, WI