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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12332
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56
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 Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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While not as good as the Radiance (IMHO), the DVDO iScan Duo will get you close.
I suppose it's all relative but the RadianceMini at our discounted price of $1595 (plus free US/Canada shipping) is considered a bargain by many. Exactly the some performance and features as the "bigger" version Radiances (it's the same software) with only less connections. Perfect for most people as most do not have a dozen source devices. I remember when the Radiance was over $3-4K just about anywhere you looked.
Kal
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12332
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | The RS1 was my first 1080p projector, my first LCoS, and I loved it. |
How do (or did) you find your current RS50 when compared to the RS1? Just curious.
Kal
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1070
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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How about a Radiance XD? I guess that is an older unit now replaced by the XE/XS.
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yup. That'll do it too if you can find one on the used market. You don't generally see too many of them around as people keep using them. Main reason being because Jim's constantly upgrading/adding features to stay up to day with that people want so there's no need to keep buying the latest & greatest (DVDO should take notes...  ).
Kal
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1070
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | Yup. That'll do it too if you can find one on the used market. You don't generally see too many of them around as people keep using them. Main reason being because Jim's constantly upgrading/adding features to stay up to day with that people want so there's no need to keep buying the latest & greatest (DVDO should take notes... ).
Kal |
Yeah, there is one over on Videogon for what I suppose would be a decent price, not sure as I haven't shopped them really. I got my current VP50pro for $100 because it has a bad HDMI input. I have always done my switching through the receiver/prepro so that wasn't an issue for me. I wonder if that Radiance XD will allow me to do 72hz? The PDF manual on their site seems to encompass the XD/XE/XS as a whole so I'm not sure what features are included. Time to do some digging.
Oh, can I use something like the the free ColorHCFR software with it? I used that with my EyeOne meter and your guide Kal to calibrate my CRT. It was fun and I made progress. Of course, calling in Ken with the real tools made all the difference as I could only do so much.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1070
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | The RS1 was my first 1080p projector, my first LCoS, and I loved it. |
How do (or did) you find your current RS50 when compared to the RS1? Just curious.
Kal |
I believe he is selling his RS50 so I would be interested to hear what he is going after next. Maybe the RS45 or RS55?
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12332
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | I wonder if that Radiance XD will allow me to do 72hz? The PDF manual on their site seems to encompass the XD/XE/XS as a whole so I'm not sure what features are included. Time to do some digging. |
Not sure. Their site only lists the $500 price to go the "+" model for the XS and XE, not the older XD.
| Quote: | | Oh, can I use something like the the free ColorHCFR software with it? I used that with my EyeOne meter and your guide Kal to calibrate my CRT. |
Sure, but not automatically. You can make adjustments in the Radiance and then measure the results. This is what everyone has always done or did the past. Now if you want to use more advanced software like ChromaPure, it has an autocalibrate feature you can add on. It then talks the Radiance and does the calibration automatically. You just click and watch. It keeps reading from the meter and adjusting the Radiance until you get as close to perfect as possible. Takes 5-15 minutes, depending on how fast the meter is.
Kal
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1070
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: |
Sure, but not automatically. You can make adjustments in the Radiance and then measure the results. This is what everyone has always done or did the past. Now if you want to use more advanced software like ChromaPure, it has an autocalibrate feature you can add on. It then talks the Radiance and does the calibration automatically. You just click and watch. It keeps reading from the meter and adjusting the Radiance until you get as close to perfect as possible. Takes 5-15 minutes, depending on how fast the meter is.
Kal |
Wow, that sounds very slick. Kind of takes some of the fun out of it though doesn't it? I mean if you consider spending countless hours in the dark with a laptop, meter and remote control fun. I remember many a nights doing this.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 6953
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | kal wrote: | The RS1 does not have a full CMS so any adjustments you make would be to controls that affect all colours. The only way to do it right is when an external video processor that adds that capability.
Kal |
It has individual color adjustment in the service menu. |
I owned 2 RS1's and this was extensively discussed as a weak point of the projector - it had very rudimentary greyscale adjustment (essentially a set of RGB sliders that didn't work that well) and no gamut adjustment. Unless the service menu adjustments came out in a later firmware revision, the RS1 had essentially no way of calibrating greyscale, gamut, or gamma without an external box like the Radiance. |
See, your acknowledging there are internal individual color controls. With this type of technology along with most digital projectors you can only change the intensity of a color. The sliders change the intensity of the individual colors.
An external processor can still only change the intensity of the light. Maybe the external processor will have a finer adjustment control to be more precise but you can't change the devices inherent technology.
Even a gamma adjustment would only increase a specific intensity to bring up lower levels or LSB's of a particular color.
Think about the technology for a minute, white light.... prisms......reflective panels........ there is only certain things that are possible to be adjusted. And only the panels can be adjusted.
So if you want to say an external processor will give you a little more intensity control then the internal adjustment of the RS then I would agree. Or the gamma control could bring up lower light(by manipulating specific light intensity). But to turn down over saturated colors could be done with the internal adjustment..
New firmware or not.... the adjustments are there.....
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 12332
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | Wow, that sounds very slick. Kind of takes some of the fun out of it though doesn't it? I mean if you consider spending countless hours in the dark with a laptop, meter and remote control fun. I remember many a nights doing this. |
You want calibration fun? Try spending those hours in the dark while writing a 20,000 word guide on how to do it.
Kal
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 6953
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: |
You want calibration fun? Try spending those hours in the dark while writing a 20,000 word guide on how to do it.
Kal |
I take my hat off to ya for that one Kal. That was one big task..... 
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1070
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | dropzone7 wrote: | | Wow, that sounds very slick. Kind of takes some of the fun out of it though doesn't it? I mean if you consider spending countless hours in the dark with a laptop, meter and remote control fun. I remember many a nights doing this. |
You want calibration fun? Try spending those hours in the dark while writing a 20,000 word guide on how to do it.
Kal |
Yeah, I bet! I really appreciate it though. I have printed that guide and shared it with a few of my family members. I let them borrow my meter and have a little fun trying to work on their displays. Any improvement at all makes it all worthwhile.
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1463
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'd love to see a shootout between a JVC and a high end dlp with accurate color and a smooth auto-iris....
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1070
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | | I'd love to see a shootout between a JVC and a high end dlp with accurate color and a smooth auto-iris.... |
Which JVC and what "high-end" DLP?
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 6953
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | | I'd love to see a shootout between a JVC and a high end dlp with accurate color and a smooth auto-iris.... |
I'm curious Ben what you think the difference between these 2 are as far as PQ or why you believe there is a difference.
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nuttall_chris
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 823
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | kal wrote: | The RS1 does not have a full CMS so any adjustments you make would be to controls that affect all colours. The only way to do it right is when an external video processor that adds that capability.
Kal |
It has individual color adjustment in the service menu. |
I owned 2 RS1's and this was extensively discussed as a weak point of the projector - it had very rudimentary greyscale adjustment (essentially a set of RGB sliders that didn't work that well) and no gamut adjustment. Unless the service menu adjustments came out in a later firmware revision, the RS1 had essentially no way of calibrating greyscale, gamut, or gamma without an external box like the Radiance. |
See, your acknowledging there are internal individual color controls. With this type of technology along with most digital projectors you can only change the intensity of a color. The sliders change the intensity of the individual colors.
An external processor can still only change the intensity of the light. Maybe the external processor will have a finer adjustment control to be more precise but you can't change the devices inherent technology.
Even a gamma adjustment would only increase a specific intensity to bring up lower levels or LSB's of a particular color.
Think about the technology for a minute, white light.... prisms......reflective panels........ there is only certain things that are possible to be adjusted. And only the panels can be adjusted.
So if you want to say an external processor will give you a little more intensity control then the internal adjustment of the RS then I would agree. Or the gamma control could bring up lower light(by manipulating specific light intensity). But to turn down over saturated colors could be done with the internal adjustment..
New firmware or not.... the adjustments are there..... |
An external box like the Radiance can't increase the the color gamut but it can remap the x and y values as well as the luminance of each primary and secondary color to bring the values to the proper points on the chart. The controls within the RS1 and RS2 only allow you to adjust the luminance.
I've been using my RS2/Radiance combo for a couple of years and still love it. I see no need to upgrade to a newer projector at this point.
Kal, I hope to get an invite to see your new setup when it is up and running, I'd like to see how a new projector compares.
Chris.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1070
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| nuttall_chris wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | kal wrote: | The RS1 does not have a full CMS so any adjustments you make would be to controls that affect all colours. The only way to do it right is when an external video processor that adds that capability.
Kal |
It has individual color adjustment in the service menu. |
I owned 2 RS1's and this was extensively discussed as a weak point of the projector - it had very rudimentary greyscale adjustment (essentially a set of RGB sliders that didn't work that well) and no gamut adjustment. Unless the service menu adjustments came out in a later firmware revision, the RS1 had essentially no way of calibrating greyscale, gamut, or gamma without an external box like the Radiance. |
See, your acknowledging there are internal individual color controls. With this type of technology along with most digital projectors you can only change the intensity of a color. The sliders change the intensity of the individual colors.
An external processor can still only change the intensity of the light. Maybe the external processor will have a finer adjustment control to be more precise but you can't change the devices inherent technology.
Even a gamma adjustment would only increase a specific intensity to bring up lower levels or LSB's of a particular color.
Think about the technology for a minute, white light.... prisms......reflective panels........ there is only certain things that are possible to be adjusted. And only the panels can be adjusted.
So if you want to say an external processor will give you a little more intensity control then the internal adjustment of the RS then I would agree. Or the gamma control could bring up lower light(by manipulating specific light intensity). But to turn down over saturated colors could be done with the internal adjustment..
New firmware or not.... the adjustments are there..... |
An external box like the Radiance can't increase the the color gamut but it can remap the x and y values as well as the luminance of each primary and secondary color to bring the values to the proper points on the chart. The controls within the RS1 and RS2 only allow you to adjust the luminance.
I've been using my RS2/Radiance combo for a couple of years and still love it. I see no need to upgrade to a newer projector at this point.
Kal, I hope to get an invite to see your new setup when it is up and running, I'd like to see how a new projector compares.
Chris. |
Chris, which Radiance unit do you have?
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 6953
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| nuttall_chris wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | kal wrote: | The RS1 does not have a full CMS so any adjustments you make would be to controls that affect all colours. The only way to do it right is when an external video processor that adds that capability.
Kal |
It has individual color adjustment in the service menu. |
I owned 2 RS1's and this was extensively discussed as a weak point of the projector - it had very rudimentary greyscale adjustment (essentially a set of RGB sliders that didn't work that well) and no gamut adjustment. Unless the service menu adjustments came out in a later firmware revision, the RS1 had essentially no way of calibrating greyscale, gamut, or gamma without an external box like the Radiance. |
See, your acknowledging there are internal individual color controls. With this type of technology along with most digital projectors you can only change the intensity of a color. The sliders change the intensity of the individual colors.
An external processor can still only change the intensity of the light. Maybe the external processor will have a finer adjustment control to be more precise but you can't change the devices inherent technology.
Even a gamma adjustment would only increase a specific intensity to bring up lower levels or LSB's of a particular color.
Think about the technology for a minute, white light.... prisms......reflective panels........ there is only certain things that are possible to be adjusted. And only the panels can be adjusted.
So if you want to say an external processor will give you a little more intensity control then the internal adjustment of the RS then I would agree. Or the gamma control could bring up lower light(by manipulating specific light intensity). But to turn down over saturated colors could be done with the internal adjustment..
New firmware or not.... the adjustments are there..... |
An external box like the Radiance can't increase the the color gamut but it can remap the x and y values as well as the luminance of each primary and secondary color to bring the values to the proper points on the chart. The controls within the RS1 and RS2 only allow you to adjust the luminance.
I've been using my RS2/Radiance combo for a couple of years and still love it. I see no need to upgrade to a newer projector at this point.
Kal, I hope to get an invite to see your new setup when it is up and running, I'd like to see how a new projector compares.
Chris. |
Ok Chris,
A) what is the definition of luminance?
B) you can't change the primary color as the prism is not adjustable.
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nuttall_chris
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 823
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | nuttall_chris wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | kal wrote: | The RS1 does not have a full CMS so any adjustments you make would be to controls that affect all colours. The only way to do it right is when an external video processor that adds that capability.
Kal |
It has individual color adjustment in the service menu. |
I owned 2 RS1's and this was extensively discussed as a weak point of the projector - it had very rudimentary greyscale adjustment (essentially a set of RGB sliders that didn't work that well) and no gamut adjustment. Unless the service menu adjustments came out in a later firmware revision, the RS1 had essentially no way of calibrating greyscale, gamut, or gamma without an external box like the Radiance. |
See, your acknowledging there are internal individual color controls. With this type of technology along with most digital projectors you can only change the intensity of a color. The sliders change the intensity of the individual colors.
An external processor can still only change the intensity of the light. Maybe the external processor will have a finer adjustment control to be more precise but you can't change the devices inherent technology.
Even a gamma adjustment would only increase a specific intensity to bring up lower levels or LSB's of a particular color.
Think about the technology for a minute, white light.... prisms......reflective panels........ there is only certain things that are possible to be adjusted. And only the panels can be adjusted.
So if you want to say an external processor will give you a little more intensity control then the internal adjustment of the RS then I would agree. Or the gamma control could bring up lower light(by manipulating specific light intensity). But to turn down over saturated colors could be done with the internal adjustment..
New firmware or not.... the adjustments are there..... |
An external box like the Radiance can't increase the the color gamut but it can remap the x and y values as well as the luminance of each primary and secondary color to bring the values to the proper points on the chart. The controls within the RS1 and RS2 only allow you to adjust the luminance.
I've been using my RS2/Radiance combo for a couple of years and still love it. I see no need to upgrade to a newer projector at this point.
Kal, I hope to get an invite to see your new setup when it is up and running, I'd like to see how a new projector compares.
Chris. |
Chris, which Radiance unit do you have? |
I have the Radiance XD.
Chris.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1070
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Link Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| nuttall_chris wrote: |
I have the Radiance XD.
Chris.
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Okay, that's what I'm reading about right now. Will it do 72hz?
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