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Tube pinout question
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Decibel



Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 902
Location: Roma - Italia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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macgyver655 wrote:
You cant always go by the socket id. What model projector is that neckboard from?


I think Barco Vision 1609.

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Domenico (Barco fan!)
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macgyver655



Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decibel wrote:
macgyver655 wrote:
You cant always go by the socket id. What model projector is that neckboard from?


I think Barco Vision 1609.


I checked the schematic on the 909 neck board which should be the same and it confirms the sheet with the LUG pinouts. Not the same as your picture.
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Decibel



Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 902
Location: Roma - Italia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

macgyver655 wrote:

I checked the schematic on the 909 neck board which should be the same and it confirms the sheet with the LUG pinouts. Not the same as your picture.


Are you sure?
I have service sheets of the 1209s (R762839 Lug's compatible) and 808 (R762508) sockets and both numeration is ever counterclockwise like my picture.

I think that this is standard.

I would to modify Sony 8" neckboard for use it in 9" panasonic tube, so I would to be sure.

Can you show picture of your sheet?

R762508


R762839

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macgyver655



Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I misunderstood. I didn't realize you were using a Sony tube neckboard. Since you have the Panasonic tube pin out, just modify the neckboard as such. If you can read those schematics it should be no problem at all for you.... Very Happy
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Blockbullie



Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Posts: 224
Location: willamette valley ,Oregon


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I to wanted to put a P19LPB03 in a 1208 but unsure were to mode the KH1 any help ...............
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barclay66



Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1251
Location: Germany

TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decibel wrote:
...and both numeration is ever counterclockwise like my picture.

Hi,

The numbering will always appear mirrored!
If you look at the pinout sheets of the tubes they always show the pinout when looking onto the socket pins of the tube (that's when you hold the tube in the way that it's screen surface is oriented away from you). When you look at the socket on the neck board's component side, the numbers must be mirrored because now -if a tube was plugged into it- you would be looking at it's screen surface (180 degree turn)...

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barclay66
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Decibel



Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 902
Location: Roma - Italia


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

barclay66 wrote:
The numbering will always appear mirrored!


Even I had thought of this.
But it is impossible to fail, because if you look the service manual that I have shown, you will realize that if you show the socket in back side it will appear in an different position (see pin 1 and 2).
So what you see in the service manual is surely the position seen from the socket side.



So I think that sheet with the pinouts of the CRT 9" is wrong.

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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2764
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of looking at the socket try looking at the tube pins and see what is not connected and where those pins line up with the socket diagram that might help you with the correct orientation.
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barclay66



Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1251
Location: Germany

TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

If you compare the socket of the 180DVB22 with the Neck board R762508 from a BD/BG 808 you will see the following:

- The service manual shows the Neck boards component side
- The tube pinout is mirrored because if you plug the neck board onto the tube you will then see the boards solder side and therefore will experience a 180 degree flip

The picture below shows what I'm thinking of. To the left you have the neck board (originally component side, so I flipped it 180 degrees -> solder side). In the middle we have the socket pinout. Now you just need a 90 degree turn and you have a match (right picture). So all you have to do is to compare the neck boards with each other and the tubes with each other...

Regards,
barclay66



sockets.gif
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Sockets
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sockets.gif


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Decibel



Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 902
Location: Roma - Italia


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I regret not being able to express in proper language what I mean.
The drawings, plans, sheets are written to understand the concepts without subjecting them to different interpretations.
We are interpreting what is written on that sheet.
That sheet does not say if we must to see the pinout from the socket or directly to the tube.
Conventionally, I think that we should consider the tube placed horizontally on a table.
That design would suggest that we should look the pinout from the socket (or from tube face).

Why?

Because otherwise the 9" schematic it should appear mirrored (with the pin 1 and two placed high at right).
In the sheet position, if we look directly to the tube, it placed vertically!

The only thing certain and correct is the sequence of the pinout, that is the same in both clockwise and counterclockwise.

---------------------------------

Mi dispiace di non essere in grado di esprimere con un linguaggio corretto quello che voglio dire.
I disegni, progetti, fogli sono scritti per capire i concetti, senza sottoporli a diverse interpretazioni.
Noi stiamo interpretando ciò che è scritto su quel foglio.
Quel foglio non dice se dobbiamo vedere la piedinatura dalla presa o direttamente al tubo.
Convenzionalmente, penso che dovremmo prendere in considerazione il tubo posto orizzontalmente su un tavolo.
Quel disegno suggerisce che dovremmo guardare la piedinatura dalla presa (o dalla faccia del tubo).

Perché?

Perché altrimenti lo schema dei tubi da 9" dovrebbe apparire speculare (con il pin 1 e due posti in alto a destra).
Nella posizione del disegno, se noi guardiamo direttamente il tubo, questo sarà in verticale!

L'unica cosa certa e corretta è la sequenza della disposizione dei pin, che è lo stesso in senso orario e antiorario.

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barclay66



Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1251
Location: Germany

TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

seems to me too that we're not getting far with this. In this case I recommend using km987654's approach:

- Ignore all pin numberings either visible or not
- Plug the Neck board onto the tube
- Visually inspect which pin inside the tube is connected and where it is going
- The filament pins are easy to identify
- The pin that connects to a point nearest to the filament is the cathode
- The next part connected to one or more pins is the G1 grid. It is next to the cathode but farer away from the filament
- Next to it and even farer away than G1 you will find the G2 grid which will be connected to at least one pin
- After identifying the pins compare their location with the CRT socket on the neck board and the schematics

I hope this helps...

Regards,
Jorge

P.S.: Scusi, ma anche se la mia mamma e Italiana il mio Italiano non e sufficente per spieghare tutti questi cose tecniche...
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Decibel



Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 902
Location: Roma - Italia


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your kind help, it will look the tube and what's inside.
But when I can I like to spread experiences to help other members of the forum.

So I think that sheet is unclear.

-----------------------------------

Grazie per il vostro gentile aiuto, infatti guarderò il tubo e quello che c'è dentro.
Però quando mi è possibile mi piace diffondere esperienze per aiutare anche altri frequentatori del forum.

Quindi penso che quel foglio sia poco chiaro.

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barclay66



Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1251
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TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decibel wrote:
But when I can I like to spread experiences to help other members of the forum.

Hi,

I didn't want to interfere with that. I just wasn't sure if this was a misunderstanding or not...

Regards,
barclay66
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barclay66



Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1251
Location: Germany

TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way: Where did you find those tube pinouts anyway? Do you have link to a good site where those can be looked up?

Thank you!

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barclay66
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Ile



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1491
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blockbullie wrote:
I to wanted to put a P19LPB03 in a 1208 but unsure were to mode the KH1 any help ...............
Connect Pin 7 (KH1) to ground through 1M ohm resistor (1/2 watt).

Here's some pictures of my BG808s (Sony 07MFP2 tubes) neck board mod for Marquee Panasonic tubes. I used similar resistors for unused 6-7 pins.
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=110470&sid=a2af4cb4c5b78ab8be4de0684e640019#110470
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Decibel



Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 902
Location: Roma - Italia


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barclay66 wrote:
By the way: Where did you find those tube pinouts anyway? Do you have link to a good site where those can be looked up?


I don't remember where found the sheet, perhaps in a post in this forum.

In this post there's all references.

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barclay66



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PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, thanks.
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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
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TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decibel wrote:
I regret not being able to express in proper language what I mean.
The drawings, plans, sheets are written to understand the concepts without subjecting them to different interpretations.
We are interpreting what is written on that sheet.
That sheet does not say if we must to see the pinout from the socket or directly to the tube.
Conventionally, I think that we should consider the tube placed horizontally on a table.
That design would suggest that we should look the pinout from the socket (or from tube face).

Why?

Because otherwise the 9" schematic it should appear mirrored (with the pin 1 and two placed high at right).
In the sheet position, if we look directly to the tube, it placed vertically!

The only thing certain and correct is the sequence of the pinout, that is the same in both clockwise and counterclockwise.

---------------------------------

Mi dispiace di non essere in grado di esprimere con un linguaggio corretto quello che voglio dire.
I disegni, progetti, fogli sono scritti per capire i concetti, senza sottoporli a diverse interpretazioni.
Noi stiamo interpretando ciò che è scritto su quel foglio.
Quel foglio non dice se dobbiamo vedere la piedinatura dalla presa o direttamente al tubo.
Convenzionalmente, penso che dovremmo prendere in considerazione il tubo posto orizzontalmente su un tavolo.
Quel disegno suggerisce che dovremmo guardare la piedinatura dalla presa (o dalla faccia del tubo).

Perché?

Perché altrimenti lo schema dei tubi da 9" dovrebbe apparire speculare (con il pin 1 e due posti in alto a destra).
Nella posizione del disegno, se noi guardiamo direttamente il tubo, questo sarà in verticale!

L'unica cosa certa e corretta è la sequenza della disposizione dei pin, che è lo stesso in senso orario e antiorario.



This is very confusing because the tube pin numbers are 1 to 12 yet schematics of the neck card show 1,2 then 4 to 13 there is no pin 3. This is why I have suggested using a visual inspection of the tube.
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Ile



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1491
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

km987654 wrote:
This is very confusing because the tube pin numbers are 1 to 12 yet schematics of the neck card show 1,2 then 4 to 13 there is no pin 3. This is why I have suggested using a visual inspection of the tube.

It seems that Panasonic have numbered also those totally missing pins 3 and 14, those that aren't there because 1-2 pins enclosure reserve those places. Very Happy

Sony numbering skip those missing pins.

http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/2829/pinoutcrt9.jpg
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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2764
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ile wrote:
km987654 wrote:
This is very confusing because the tube pin numbers are 1 to 12 yet schematics of the neck card show 1,2 then 4 to 13 there is no pin 3. This is why I have suggested using a visual inspection of the tube.

It seems that Panasonic have numbered also those totally missing pins 3 and 14, those that aren't there because 1-2 pins enclosure reserve those places. Very Happy

Sony numbering skip those missing pins.

http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/2829/pinoutcrt9.jpg


The Sony numbering includes pin 3 as G1 yet socket shows no pin 3. So is pin 3 sony tube = pin 4 sony socket.
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