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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:48 pm Post subject: Building an Electrostatic Speaker |
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Thanks to this forum I just received an order for a custom electrostatic speaker. The customer has agreed that I put the whole built process up on this forum, this way he is kept up to date and you guys may find this interesting as well. Heck, maybe someone will feel compelled to order one for himself as well
To start with, the picture shows a rendering of the speakers finished in East Indian Rosewood veneer. Their size will be 80cm wide by 220cm high (31"x86"). This should be big enough to reach down to 60Hz.
Kim
_________________ ESL-0.5 Full Range Electrostatic Loudspeakers | RTC2200 Component to VGA Converter with Gamma Boost
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zaphod
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 2002 Location: Cloverdale
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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hi - how close to the back wall are those? thinking to my CLS (similar design), 4 to 5 feet is a sweet spot. otherwise some
acoustical damping on that brick wall would be a good thing.
thanks for starting this thread - i'll be following it!
_________________ walk gently. leave a good impression.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:25 am Post subject: |
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That looks like and artist rendering not a real speaker.
I will follow this with interest.
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 6637
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:01 am Post subject: |
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Beun this should be an interesting thread ! If you don't mind my asking where do you source your drivers ?
Also do you design speaker cabinets with cone drivers ?
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Tom,
As you know, there are no drivers in an electrostatic speaker, the sound generating portion consists of only two sheets of perforated metal with a stretched mylar membrane in the middle. The perforated metal you can get anywhere, I order it custom from a manufacturer in Pennsylvania because it has to look good and nicely finished all around. If you don't quite care about the looks you can buy a big sheet from McNichols and have it cut into four pieces. I then use a local powder coater to have them sand blasted and coated.
The metalized mylar is both easy and difficult to get, a thick 1mil (25micron) roll is sold at hydroponics supply houses but this will roll off the higher frequencies above 10kHz a bit more. To be honest I tried it and I don't hear the difference, but I am sure you can measure it. The thinner 0.5mil (12 micron) or thinner is more difficult to get especially when you want the shrink version. I have called various suppliers and the first thing they ask is how many pallets per month you are going to buy.
I actually designed a ribbon driver with open baffle woofer a while ago and I think I would like to redo the design and built it. See below how I originally envisioned it.
_________________ ESL-0.5 Full Range Electrostatic Loudspeakers | RTC2200 Component to VGA Converter with Gamma Boost
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Building an Electrostatic Speaker |
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beun wrote: | Thanks to this forum I just received an order for a custom electrostatic speaker. The customer has agreed that I put the whole built process up on this forum, this way he is kept up to date and you guys may find this interesting as well. Heck, maybe someone will feel compelled to order one for himself as well |
Good idea! Lots of pictures and text please! Once completed I'll pull it together and I can publish it on the order page and/or in a newsletter. People love to see DIY type stuff like this. I know I'm interested in seeing the process!
Kal
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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5238 Location: Osceola, Indiana
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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I remember the first time I saw a pair of Martin Logans they were amazing...super clean highs, this was probably in the early 90's...It seemed like you could smell traces of ozone from them. It could be my memory is faulty....Is that possible?
Mike
_________________ Doing HD since the last century!
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zaphod
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 2002 Location: Cloverdale
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Spanky Ham wrote: | That looks like and artist rendering not a real speaker.
I will follow this with interest. |
well yes, it's obviously a rendering ... but often people render the expected end result .... and putting large panel stats up against a brick wall needs a lot of rethinking.
_________________ walk gently. leave a good impression.
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5238 Location: Osceola, Indiana
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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beun wrote: | Mike,
Electrostatic speakers usually don't give off ozone, a plasma tweeter does though. Are you sure you aren't mixing them up? |
Ahh...That could be.
Mike
_________________ Doing HD since the last century!
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Exotic veneers are definitely pricey!
So, you were off on the wood finish by a factor of 32, then Kim? Major ouch!!!
SC
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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I've been hoping to come up with the 'extra' $$$ for some time now to produce a set of ESL's from Jazzmans project. It's still on hold due to the economy.
http://jazzman-esl-page.blogspot.com/
I like Jazzmans overall design but when (if?) I get around to building mine I want to incorporate the electronics used by Sheldon in his project here:
http://quadesl.com/diy_esl1.shtml
I like that Sheldon uses a more hands on approach to the electronics. He has incorporated SIP resistors to allow for quick output modeling too. His plans are a bit dated (2003/2004) so more efficient OPA's and other components may be available today. Overall I like that he didn't leave the active crossover choice to a static off-the-shelf solution.
I hopefully haven't undermined any commercial ventures by posting my DIY link to plans... I don't believe it will because some of us would never buy a set even if we could afford to. IMO building a DIY set of ESL's is the ultimate in bragging rights and additionally allows the builder to model their output to the intended environment. If I have whizzed in Beuns Wheaties I sincerely apologize.
_________________ Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Greg,
Don't worry about whizzying in my Wheaties or posting other links, after I am done with the whole thread everyone should have enough information to built my plan for themselves. I actually encourage everyone to give it a try. Most people will figure out soon enough that it is one heck of a job to get them to look nice and that it is going to cost some serious time.
People will also notice that it is more about fine woodworking than anything else, so if you don't already have a decent set of woodworking tools it will actually be cheaper to just buy them from me than to do it yourself.
I also understand the desire to do it yourself, that's how I started over 20 years ago after seeing the Martin-Logan CLS and thinking to myself 'I can do that'. Ultimately I could but my first pair took me over a year to finish, remember too that those were pre-www days.
_________________ ESL-0.5 Full Range Electrostatic Loudspeakers | RTC2200 Component to VGA Converter with Gamma Boost
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RayN999
Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 207 Location: Minneapolis, MN
TV/Projector: Sony VPL-VW60 and Toshiba 65H84 CRT RPTV
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I picked up a 'budget' set of Martin Logan Aerius i speakers a couple years ago from a local high-end shop, and there's nothing quite like the sound of an electrostatic. The clarity & "presence" is like nothing you'll hear from a regular box speaker.
This definitely looks like an interesting thread, and I'll keep a watch on it as well. One thing I rolled around in my noggin a couple years ago too was the idea of electrostatic headphones along the lines of Stax, but DIY. Your build info, along with the HV power supply, may reinspire me to look back into that again.
_________________ Ray Nelson
N9QBV
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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Link Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Ray,
I built headphones too a long time ago and planning to create a new pair. If you want to start with electrostats, do a headphone first. You can use any perforated piece of crap you have as stator, I originally used experiment PCB board. When you keep the spacing small, about 1mm, a 600V bias is more than enough, and to start with a 220V-9V toroid power transformer (think cheap) is capable enough to drive them. You will be surprised with the quality.
_________________ ESL-0.5 Full Range Electrostatic Loudspeakers | RTC2200 Component to VGA Converter with Gamma Boost
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beun
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 676
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