CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Billm]

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Moome
Thanks for your reply
I have the same as you only difference is my graphics card which is an ATI 6850 which has 1.4 support.
Have tried the Nvidia glasses with the usb connected.I will try with the 3d device in Power Dvd [latest version] selected as you have suggested that is Hdtv 720p 60hz and post the result. Hopefully the 720p 60hz is the key as reading the manual I thought 3d would only work at 120hz.
Thanks Bill

[moome]

[moome]

[Billm]

Moome
I do not have 3d Tv I have an XG135 have tried the 720p 6ohz on an input glasses still will not work.
I believe I have a 3d picture just can not get the glasses to work.
Some further instructions or pictures on how you get the pc setup would be great.
Thanks Bill

[ElTopo]

Could someone please post what IR transmitter and glasses are used/tested already ?

I thought about the XPAND 103 glasses but what transmitter can be connected (plug 'n play) to the Moome box V3 ?


thanks for input
ElTopo

[prover]

[ElTopo]

But the VESA connector does not
match the Moome input?

[prover]

[ElTopo]

Thanks.

My video chain will be:

Philips Blu-Ray 3D Player -> Lumagen Radiance -> Moome Box V3 -> BR909

I'll try the Moome Box with the Gen2 transmitter + XpanD 103 Glasers

ElTopo

[moome]

[moome]

[moome]

[moome]

[prover]

I got the new nvidia gfx card but I didn't have any succes activating the 3d vision because
EXT V3 isn't recongnized from the nvidia software as a 3d ready device. This really sucks...
I have installed all the drivers several times this isn' t funny any more...

I will give 3d vision tomorrow a last chance with the newest drivers, if I don't have
any success I will kick 3d vision stuff
I will purchase the universal emitter and the glasses from 3dmagic. At least I know from
moome that this set works.

I am really so pissed off regarding the nvidia stuff...

[drudozucker]

NVidia 3D kit & Moome Full EXTHD v3
Differences between using Moome Full EXTHD v3 and GPU’s VGA output
Subjective experience of 3D content

I also found, that the NVidia 3D kit would not recognise Moome’s EXT FullHD v3 as a 3D HDMI device, because it is in NVidia’s driver not “listed” as one of NVidia's certified 3D products. However, if one manually loads a suitable .inf file of another NVidia 3D certified device, it seems to work. I used the file "acer_h5360.inf". You can goggle for it. It is available for download. Using it, I had to swap left/right in the 3D player’s settings (or use the NVidia glasses upside down ). There might be further restrictions in using this particular file and maybe the VESA sync isn't working (correctly). I had no time to check this in full depth yet, but I made Moome aware of this issue and he promised to look into it.

Some clarification to my earlier contributions to this thread: I use in the meantime an NVidia GTX 460. I replaced the GTS 250, initially used, to have HDMI 1.4a support. I thought this might be the reason for not recognising the Full EXTHD v3 as 3D capable, but it might have worked using above .inf file. I simply haven’t tried this. And the proper output at the NVidia’s 2.5mm 3D sync connector seems to be Tip=Sync, Ring=5V, Sleeve=Ground.


Is there a (better?) alternative:
I have in the meantime also quite extensively directly used the GTX 460’s VGA output (as this worked straight away with NVidia’s 3D kit). What are the differences in usage and performance one might ask?

a) Using GTX 460's VGA output gives a much finer way of setting the VGA timing. That way I could most accurately match the output to the needs of my Barco Cine 9. This is a small point, but might be very essential in some applications to improve picture quality. Please note, this does not imply that the GTX 460’s A’s output might be better or worse than Moome’s.

b) I can run 3D content even at 1920x1080p@96Hz (in addition to 1280x720p@120Hz)

c) The shutter glasses are always correctly synced, meaning right/left and not the fine timing within a frame, see d) below)

d) Not knowing the exact processing delay of my CRT projector, which I guess (but I don't know) might be longer/different than that of the EXT FULLHD v3 or that assumed/used by NVidia’s 3D kit, I do not know if the shutter glasses are perfectly timed within a frame.

e) Fine tuning picture quality at 1280x720p@120Hz does not show up any significant difference in 2D picture quality between both solutions. I used test pattern and movie content to come to this conclusion. I haven’t made measurements using an oscilloscope, because in both instances the gap between two adjacent horizontal lines is too prominent, maybe a result of the Cine 9’s fine scan lines and the large screen projection. At 1920x1080p@ 96Hz only the GTX 460 can provide a picture, so there is no way of comparing that resolution. 1920x1080p@48Hz or 60Hz needs further work.


Does this difference for 3D matter?
The answer is (for me?) “no”, ignoring the fact that 1920x1080p is in my setup the better = finer resolution. The issue is both Ghosting and the way 3D is so far presented (there are not many 3D Blu-rays yet). Ghosting clearly exists, although most of the time it isn’t that distracting/bad. Only in quite exceptional circumstances, like bright white writing on dark background is it clearly evident and hence distracting. I found no significant difference whether I used 1920x180p at 72Hz or 96Hz or 1280x720p @ 120Hz. There might be a tiny advantage when using 72Hz but this might simply be caused by the glasses’ timing issue, mentioned in d) above. Interestingly I found 2 x 36Hz much less flickering than I had expected but my preferred setting became 1920 x 1080p @ 96Hz. In any case, as mentioned, the difference in Ghosting is in my setup not that significant.

And as a side note, I had no real issue with light output, maybe because I use my CRT projection in a pitch black room and hence have additional white level on offer.

So is 3D using an ordinary (no special green phosphor) CRT projector watchable? Yes and no! Yes because it is, in my opinion, as “good/bad” as what I have seen from some large size 3D LCD televisions (I know they seem to get better and yes I saw a very good 3D Plasma too). However, what is totally unacceptable, in my opinion, and will, so I believe, hinder a wider acceptance of 3D is the often artificial, exaggerated use of 3D.

If there is 3D then (at least!) I expect that the “depth of field” is according to what I ordinarily (=in normal life) see. Using small f-value lenses with heavy 3D gives me headache. The human eye has a under normal circumstances a pretty large DOF and hence when the brain is offered 3D information it expects a similar DOF. Without it, the eye continuously tries to refocus. Filming with small DOF might be what the director wants, and might be acceptable in 2D (I don’t like it at all, but that’s personal taste), but surely it needs a different approach when filming/applying 3D.

Furthermore, I also expects for a given object’s size the 3 dimensionality that is matched to the experience learnt object’s dimension. Over-exaggerating 3D (i.e. making e.g. a dog as deep as an elephant) might be impressive for a few minutes but after that the brain and its “trained by experience” simply start to clash. That isn’t enjoyable and with added Ghosting, it becomes merely a gimmick.

As it stands I am happy that I can use my CRT projection also for 3D content, but rather prefer 2D, at least until better produced 3D films arrive. Maybe this early selection was simply a bad one!


Next steps:
Having said all this, I intend to make detailed measurements of the true 2D picture quality of the GTX 460’s VGA output, but first I need to make up some high quality cabling to minimise the issue of sending 1920x1080p@96Hz via a DB15 connector and standard VGA computer cabling. I will then compare this with my previous setups: dedicated Blu-ray player + Moome HDMI switch + Lumagen or TAG McLaren Audio video scaler. Maybe after all HTPCs have now become a truly suitable alternative to feed CRT projectors. Software, such as Arcsoft TMT v5, DVBViewer Pro and Microsoft Media Centre under Windows 7 are, in my experience, stable and rather user friendly setups. This is encouraging, I believe.

I apologise for such long contribution
Regards Udo

[Billm]

Hi Udo
Thanks for your contribution. I gave up with the Moome Box for 3D bought an Optoma HD 66 DLP projector and am now watching sensational 3D at 720p no ghosting and more than bright enough in economy mode.
However I will only use the DLP for 3D as the XG looks better in 2D.Without input from people like you we would never be able to enjoy our passion.
Moome needs to give a more detailed explanation of how to set these things up as I feel I have wasted my money on this box don't get me wrong I do appreciate what he does as this is my 3rd box I have purchased from him.
Regards Bill

[prover]

Hi Udo,
thanx for your post! Using the hack with the new driver for ext v3 3d vision finally could recognize the box
as a 3d capable device After that I was able to project 720p@120Hz in 3D on my 1292. There was no need to use any VESA sync cable for synchronization, it worked over USB so far as I could see correctly.

My configuration right now:

HTPC (Win 7) with Nvidia GTS 450 (HDMI 1.4a) --> HDMI --> Moome EXT V3 --> RGB --> Sony 1292
--> USB --> Nvidia IR Emitter

I have also connected the 1292 directly to the Nvidia GTS 450 via VGA in order to find out if there is a significant difference. For me at 720p@120Hz both results via HDMI+EXT V3 and via direct VGA connection were the same. Synchronization
seems to work correctly in both cases (I have tried with same film material).

In both cases (HDMI+EXT V3 and direct VGA) the picture was darker compared to a 2D corrersponding picture but this didn't have such a dramatical effect perhaps because my HT is completely dark. Ghosting is an issue but can be limited to a minimum if the viewing depth is kept in a reasonable range.

I have used PoweDVD10 3D Mark II for converting 2D DVD's to 3D and I must say it delivered an astonishing result that I didn't have expected . This is worth trying! In the next days I will get a new bluray combo drive and will try 3D- and 2D-bluray playback.

Unfortunately this solution doesn't solve the problem that I have with the PS3. In order to play 3D games with the PS3 over EXT V3 this solution doesn't fit. Either the additional sync cable (VESA) has to come in use or an additional emiter (as Gen2 from 3dmagic.com) has to be used.

[prover]

Hi everyone,

yesterday I tested 3D-playback (Cloudy with a chance of Meatballs) of 3D-bluray using the HTPC and EXT V3 with 3D Vision glasses. The result was perfect.

[ElTopo]

Hi,

hopefully my Moome box will arrive soon.

Cannot wait to do the test with the Gen2 transmitter + Xpand103 glasses

ElTopo

[prover]

Here is a first screenshot of my 3d-bluray playback result:

[ElTopo]

Moome,

will the adapter plugged in between the Gen2 and the Moome box ?

Does it fit plug 'n play ?

thx
ElTopo

[moome]

[moome]

[ElTopo]

Moome,

thx for reply.

Is it possible to enjoy 3D with the new Moome in 1080i@120Hz ?

thanks
ElTopo