Return to the CurtPalme.com main site CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum
A forum with a sense of fun and community for Home Theater enthusiasts!
Products for Sale ] [ FAQ: Hooking it all up ] [ CRT Primer/FAQ ] [ Best/Worst CRT Projectors List ] [ Setup Tips & Manuals ] [ Advanced Procedures ] [ Newsletters ]

 
Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist  Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums  RegisterRegister 
 MembershipClub Membership   ProfileProfile   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in 
Blu-ray disc release list and must-have titles. Buy the latest and best Blu-ray titles to show off in your home theater!

[Cine 7 ] shaking image - HV instability
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> CRT Projectors
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Douma



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:29 pm    Post subject: [Cine 7 ] shaking image - HV instability Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
Hi,

I just did a rough setup on my Cine 7 (with 694 hours) to get familiar with the controls. It's bin a few years since I last worked with crt projectors.Smile
I already got a pretty nice image but also some problems:

The image is continuously moving/shaking. Like someone is zooming in and out a tiny bit, constantly.
When I look into the lenses I see on the bottom of the Phosphor some rapidly moving lines. On all the tubes.

The Barco is hooked up via component on my TViX which is configured for 1080i/60hz. I tried different resolutions but the problem stays. I tried lowering the contrast and/or brightness but the problem stays.

It doesn't matter if I use a external source or a internal test pattern. The problems are the same.

Does this sound familiar to somebody?


Last edited by Douma on Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
joatmon



Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 127
Location: Ottawa, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The horizontal deflection coil on mine vibrated ever so slightly. Touching the metal bar that bridges the coil parts would cause it to shut-up. I ended up taking that little bridge bar off and ever so slightly bending it with pliers and re-installing it (no more audible vibration).

My picture didn't shake however. The pitch of the noise changed depending on the scan rate I was feeding it.

1080i works nice on this PJ, but I found I had to over scan by about 3-5% to get it to work right. 720p works with no over scan.

_________________
Entertained by a Runco DTV-940 (aka Barco Cine7/708)
Back to top
Douma



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joatmon wrote:
The horizontal deflection coil on mine vibrated ever so slightly. Touching the metal bar that bridges the coil parts would cause it to shut-up. I ended up taking that little bridge bar off and ever so slightly bending it with pliers and re-installing it (no more audible vibration).

My picture didn't shake however. The pitch of the noise changed depending on the scan rate I was feeding it.

1080i works nice on this PJ, but I found I had to over scan by about 3-5% to get it to work right. 720p works with no over scan.


I checked the deflection coils. They seem to be OK. The noise I'm hearing isn't a 'scanrate-like' noise. I don't mind the noise, the real problem is the shaking picture.
The lines on the bottom of the phosphor don't dissapear when I use blanking. They stay vissible.

Edit 1: When the image shakes it does so on all the tubes, so the convergence stays intact.

Edit 2: The rattling sound decreased a bit since yesterday. The problems are the same.

Edit 3: I feel a bit stupid. Thought the Cine 7 had only two fans in the back. The thirth fan in the front is making the rattling noise. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
Douma



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lines that I see at the bottom of the phosphor look somewhat like this:



I just tried deleting all memory blocks and set everything to mid positions. It didn't solve the problem.
Back to top
joatmon



Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 127
Location: Ottawa, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Douma wrote:
Edit 3: I feel a bit stupid. Thought the Cine 7 had only two fans in the back. The thirth fan in the front is making the rattling noise. Rolling Eyes


They only have fans in the power supply as far as I know.

If you unplug this bad fan, does the shaking of the pic stop? I wonder if it could be causing a disturbance in the (magnetic) force. Smile
Back to top
virusc



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 218
Location: virginia


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think those lines are normal. My late model 708 has them too.
Back to top
joatmon



Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 127
Location: Ottawa, Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine doesn't have those lines at the bottom - it is a Jan 2000 model.
_________________
Entertained by a Runco DTV-940 (aka Barco Cine7/708)
Back to top
Douma



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They only have fans in the power supply as far as I know.

If you unplug this bad fan, does the shaking of the pic stop? I wonder if it could be causing a disturbance in the (magnetic) force. Smile


Nope. Two fans at the back and one in the power supply. I'll try disconnecting the fan. See if it's the culprit, although I doubt it.

Quote:
I think those lines are normal. My late model 708 has them too.


I do remember having such lines with a BV700 I had. But can't remember if that was normal or not.

Quote:

Mine doesn't have those lines at the bottom - it is a Jan 2000 model.


My Cine 7 is a february 2003 model.
Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23662
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the picture is getting larger and smaller in an H and V direction, chances are one of the HV leads going into the HV splitter is not tight, and you've got some internal HV arcing going on in the splitter. THe HV splitter could also be bad, or it could be the quadrupler as well. Post a video clip of it?
Back to top
Douma



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
If the picture is getting larger and smaller in an H and V direction, chances are one of the HV leads going into the HV splitter is not tight, and you've got some internal HV arcing going on in the splitter. THe HV splitter could also be bad, or it could be the quadrupler as well. Post a video clip of it?

The picture is indeed getting bigger and smaller in H and V directions. I'll try to find a camera and post a video of the problem. Is there a way to check if the HV leads are well tightened?
Back to top
Douma



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forget what I said about the thirth fan making the noise. It doesn't. The noise stays when I stop the fan. But the noise is coming somewhere from that side of the power supply. I think it's the side where the quadrupler is located.
Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23662
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, they lock into place with the plastic collar around each HV lead going into the splitter. I'll bet one collar is loose...
Back to top
Douma



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
Yes, they lock into place with the plastic collar around each HV lead going into the splitter. I'll bet one collar is loose...

I just checked and they're al nice and tight.
Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23662
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, remove the HV leads going to the tubes one at a time, leaving the lead from the HV quadrupler in place. See if by removing one lead, the other two tubes end up fine without shaking.
Back to top
Douma



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
OK, remove the HV leads going to the tubes one at a time, leaving the lead from the HV quadrupler in place. See if by removing one lead, the other two tubes end up fine without shaking.


I removed the leads one at a time. The shaking remained.

ps. I just went out and bought a compact camera. As soon as the battery is full I will make a video of the problem.


Last edited by Douma on Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Douma



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, battery is full and I made a movie of the problem. It's just with the internal pattern. Because I deleted all the blocks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dWlGw3VR1E
Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23662
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks like HV instability. Bad SMPS/EHT section, bad quadrupler or bad HV splitter.
Back to top
Douma



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
That looks like HV instability. Bad SMPS/EHT section, bad quadrupler or bad HV splitter.


What would be the easiest way to find the culprit?

Are there any parts exchangeable with other Barco's or are they Cine 7 specific?
Back to top
Douma



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 57



PostLink    Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made another video. This time just for the noise the quadrupler makes. Does this sound normal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rzQ8glhn-E

Curt, do you perhaps have a quadrupler laying around?
Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23662
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't listen to Gary on avs, he's an idiot and doesn't know what he's talking about. Considering your HV stays up, and the set doesn't go into HV shutdown mode, my suspicion would far more be the electronics of the EHT (HV) section that is bad on the SMPS (power supply).

It could be the splitter or quadrupler, but I really doubt it.

I am out of 70X series quadruplers, and have a waiting list of 4 people wanting them, but have HV splitters. I don't have the late model Cine 7 SMPS, but the slightly older 708 SMPS will fit and work fine. Email me at curtpalme@shaw.ca and I'll get you pricing, etc.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> CRT Projectors All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum