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Oops: Projector mounting problem

 
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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10273



PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am    Post subject: Oops: Projector mounting problem Reply with quote


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When I got tired of the DIY I outsourced pretty much all of the aspects of the basement project. This included the drywall, trim, and painting. What I neglected to remember, though, was to prep the ceiling in the HT room to accommodate some sort of system to support (hang) the CRT from.

This was important to me in that being a pessimist I am in doubt of any 'simple' measure of mounting something directly to the I-joist stiles. My tract home builder amused himself at taking the Boise-Cascade I-joists with the narrowest of stiles and placing them on 24" OC. Had these I-joists been of the 2.5-3" stile width I'd not worry about it.

Imagine, you have a drywalled and painted ceiling. Using a stud-finder you [somewhat] locate the joist stiles. But, due to the limitations of the stud-finder and the narrowness of the stiles can you really trust anything? So, aside from cutting into the finish drywalled & painted ceiling, does anyone have any suggestions?

The end system must support and NEC XG1351LC.

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Zebu Fellenz




Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567



PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not completely clean but you can rough find the stiles with the stud finder and then probe through the drywall with pins or trim nails, this will allow you to find the exact center pretty quickly, and if the mount will be hung there anyway you'll never see the tiny holes.
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jkruger




Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is your personal viewing seat directly under the PJ? Just glue the mount to the drywall with crazy glue. You might damage the stiles if you lag screw into them. Laughing
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Zebu Fellenz




Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567



PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkruger wrote:
Is your personal viewing seat directly under the PJ? Just glue the mount to the drywall with crazy glue. You might damage the stiles if you lag screw into them. Laughing


Laughing Crazy glue, now that's the stuff! Wasn't even thinking of the material of the stiles, but if they're OSB with pieces of diminsional for the top and bottom plate you may be right about possible damage, or even reduced pullout strength.

Whatever you do be sure to load test it before you put it into use.
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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10273



PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, when I pulled out that load-bearing wall (not joking) the LVL beams I put in were not exactly in the same place. The original load-bearing wall was about a foot closer to the intended screen wall and I felt that moving the buried LVL beams back a foot would be acceptable from a loading question--had to carry two stories above it.

Mind you the original load-bearing wall was placed directly under to boxed chases, that defined the formal dining and living rooms. One of the chases carried plumbing drain from master bath, but these boxed chases also supported a non-buried header for the floor above it. The joists between floors for the basement/1st-floor and 1st/2nd-floor are Boise-Cascade I-joist running 26-27', meaning they are continuous. Thus, removing the basement load-bearing wall and replacing it with a buried LVL beam construct offset by one foot was considered acceptable (by Boise-Cascade structural engineers that assisted me).

I think the buried LVL beam (constructed of three 11-3/4" by 1-7/8" laminated veneer lumber, LVL) are located at what I believed to be the sweet spot for the screen size I planned for years ago--why else would I chose to place those LVL's there? As such, I thin I can mount a unistrut to them. Isn't the most weight of an XGLC on the front?

Zebu, I'll load teat with myself (~250 pounds, not sterling).

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Mr. Green




Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary

TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have this thing that came in a screwdriver set that is like a screwdriver, but just ends in a point. I have no idea what it's supposed to be used for, but it's my drywall probe/ nail/screw starter. At it's thickest, it's only 1/4" thick. I use it all the time for finding joists/ studs. I measure out from one wall, probe where it should be, then to be sure I probe both sides and screw into the center of the 2 sides. That way even on a wall with a crooked stud, you still get center. As stated above since the 2-3 holes are close together, they'll be hidden, but if not, a small 1/4" hole is easily filled and painted. I got the thing in a 27 piece screwdriver set for $12.

Also if you haven't already bought the mounting stuff and are willing to spend some $$. The cheif mounts I used are awesome!

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Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Green wrote:
I have this thing that came in a screwdriver set that is like a screwdriver, but just ends in a point. I have no idea what it's supposed to be used for, but it's my drywall probe/ nail/screw starter. At it's thickest, it's only 1/4" thick. I use it all the time for finding joists/ studs. I measure out from one wall, probe where it should be, then to be sure I probe both sides and screw into the center of the 2 sides. That way even on a wall with a crooked stud, you still get center. As stated above since the 2-3 holes are close together, they'll be hidden, but if not, a small 1/4" hole is easily filled and painted. I got the thing in a 27 piece screwdriver set for $12.

Also if you haven't already bought the mounting stuff and are willing to spend some $$. The cheif mounts I used are awesome!


It's called and Awl. Wink

Athansios

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Mr. Green




Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary

TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, awl. AKA: Drywall poker.

Yes, use an AWL, they work great. Wink The handle makes it easy to use, especially when dealing with a ceiling.

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You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.

Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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jkruger




Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to have a tool that was shaped like an awl with woodscrew type threads at the tip and the rest of the shank was like a very coarse rat-tail file. I could punch holes in almost anything and then carve out any shape I needed. I loved that thing.
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zaphod




Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and that one is called a gimlet

i love lee valley
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jkruger




Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost.
The tool I had did not have the spiral shank, instead it had an 8" long, 1/4" diameter circular rasp shank with the screw threads on the tip. I could cut thru anything except steel or glass. Very hard and very tough steel.
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JustGreg




Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can use a welding rod too...just knock off the flux and sharpen the end. If it were me I guess I wouldn't poke holes in the area where you want to mount your pj, I'd go to the edge of the room and find the joists there and use a laser to find their run, and then use painters tape to run their length (or just put tape where the pj will be but it may help with physical alignment if you have the tape in and can reference the screen and the pj off it)..

Devising a mounting is gonna be a challenge. You went for the low profile "I" joists and have also altered the balance of the dead load from above by moving the load bearing wall. I guess once you've determined the absolute location of the pj you can feel free to make a clean cutout rectangle in that spot to work with.

You could even exhaust hushbox heat into the area between the ceiling and floor with no harm. It isn't like you're introducing moisture and from what you've described it's a long run from foundation to foundation and you can always add a 4x6 or 8 vent down the end of the run.

Anybody halfway decent at drywalling should be able to close the hole later on should you decide to get away from CRT's, ( Shocked ) move, or whatever. I'd probably use the remnant to close the hole up immediately after doing the following paragraph. All you'll need to do is make the holes for the bolts before putting the drywall remnant back up or use AllThread with a locknut on top of the welded nut to make the AllThread rigid and secure.

Once you can see the joists it shouldn't be too difficult to whip up a method to hang the pj with minimal intrusion to the centerboard of the joist. They're made to cut into for wiring and small diameter duct, etc. If you know a welder you should be able to have a simple pinch mount made from 2 pieces of Unistrut; one through holes cut flush with the bottom edge of the centerboard and one under. The welder comes in to weld the nuts to the top Unistrut so you can work with the remnant in place. I'd probably also at that time design in your hushbox mounting so you don't have to hang it to the drywall around the joists with drywall inserts, etc.

Just thinking out loud. The others can add to this or trash it. Laughing

And don't use SuperGlue...that's crap. Use a good military grade heavy weave duct tape. Hey, military ships aren't gray by accident ya know! That's so the tape blends in. Wink

Good luck! Sounds like a fun project. (Trade ya! I have interior painting to do.) Thumbs Down

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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10273



PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg, you act like I did what I did without consulting appropriate individuals beforehand. Shame on you!

Before I considered moving forward, I posted on the Internet what I wished to do. The I-joists are Boise-Cascade products, and I was cold-contacted by a BC engineer. He asked where I was, the subdivision, the builder and supplier of the materials, etc. and he identified the floor plan, the builder's implementation, etc. all from the builder and builder's supplier, plus several pictures I took and sent him beforehand.

Three weeks later I received engineering drawings for removing the wall and burying the LVLs. The offset was recognized and included in these drawings from BC. The engineering drawings specified two LVLs of the type I used, but I was told if I wanted to over-engineer the final solution to use three, which I did. This was done back in 2003 and NO SETTLING since.

I also didn't use the narrow stile I-joists. The builder did in the construction of this TRACT home. When I bought the house it was already finished. The builder didn't start using wider stile I-joists until 2004-05. Anyway ...

The available ceiling height is about 8'8". I think I can afford a crisscross setup of unistruts provided they consume only a couple of inches of height. This way a 4-way I can better support the butt of the projector across multiple I-joists while the head is supported by those monster LVLs.

While I have used unistruts in the past (Mini Me room), with was from the attic that allowed me to drop of 6PG down from the ceiling about a foot. The basement scenario will be tight, I think.

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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wan, do you have a drawing or photo of the area you're trying to hang the projector from so we can see what you're talking about? Which direction do the joists run relative to the throw? Parallel or perpendicular? Do you have any mount at all for the XG, or are you fabricating everything from scratch?

One of the easiest ways to hang a projector from an I-joist is to drill through and sandwich either angle or square tube steel, or a 4x4 and a 2x4 on opposite sides, then hang a threaded rod from the lumber (or steel) you attached, than hang the Unistrut from that. No matter what you do, it's going to require a few holes large enough to work in, and some drywall patching to cover it back up. In the end, all you'll have exposed is the Unistrut, and you should be able to get the projector right up to the ceiling.

If you planned right, you may even be able to get the projector right up to the ceiling and recess some of the mount right in the ceiling for a nice, snug fit like I did.

SC
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dturco




Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 3779
Location: Eastern Shore Maryland

TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner


PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wan here is a way to do this on the simple. You will need the following tools a plumb bob, a drill [preferably cordless], a tape measure. 1] mount your screen in place so you have reference for center. 2] at the center of your screen drill a hole for a plastic expanding anchor& screw, leave 1" inch exposed to pull measurements from and to wrap strings around later.This is so it will be some what tougher to pull it out while pulling measurements from it. 3] Put anchors and screws at the side of your screen. 4] Set up P/J on floor, the full deal so you'll know its exact focus and picture. 5] Use plumb bob to find the center of the middle lense and put an anchor and screw into the ceiling where the front of the lense is. I.E. hang plumb bob from ceiling to dangle in front of lense.

Don't move the P/J yet.

Run strings from all screws. One to the middle and one from each side to form a triangle, with a string straight down the middle. If you have done this right your side strings and measurements should be equal. Your middle string should be the length that the P/J was from the screen while on the floor.

Now from the screw that is where the front of the lense should be you start to look for your joists. Measure back from here from now on. To find your joist simply thump the ceiling with the side of a closed fist. The sound and rebound you feel will change when you hit one. Now take your drill and with a 1/8" drill bit, drill where you think that joist is. When you find that wood shavings are coming out of the drill hole, move the drill forward and back enough so that you can find center of that joist. Put a 2 1/2 inch drywall screw into the joist, leaving 1 inch exposed.. Measure back the 24" you say the joists are spaced, and drill holes as before to find center of joist put in drywall screw.


For clarity I will just use the screen as north. Determine which way you want to hang you Uni-srtut North South spanning the joists, or East West running with the joist.

Now one last time with the plumb bob from the ceiling to the mounting points of your P/J This would be the FEET on a Marquee and will be where your Eyelets will be going for the pipe to slide through. Place a drywall screw into the four locations in the ceiling. Now measure from the screw that represents the lense front triangulate to these screws and write down the measurements, this is where your Uni-strut will be placed. When placing the Uni-strut make sure to give yourself at least 3" in movement ability minimum, more wouldn't hurt though.

Now move the P/J out of the way.

Because you have the small joists you must reinforce them. Cut open ceiling do the reinforcing and then install Uni-srtut. Also while ceiling is open did you run your electric yet? And Source wires, HDMI, RGBHV? If not don't forget to, while the ceiling is open.

Every one fire away as I am sure I left out something. But It's fairly accurate, I think.

Edit: Thread on how to reinforce the I joists.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15098&highlight=engineered++joist

Dave

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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Wan, do you have a drawing or photo of the area you're trying to hang the projector from so we can see what you're talking about? Which direction do the joists run relative to the throw? Parallel or perpendicular? Do you have any mount at all for the XG, or are you fabricating everything from scratch?

One of the easiest ways to hang a projector from an I-joist is to drill through and sandwich either angle or square tube steel, or a 4x4 and a 2x4 on opposite sides, then hang a threaded rod from the lumber (or steel) you attached, than hang the Unistrut from that. No matter what you do, it's going to require a few holes large enough to work in, and some drywall patching to cover it back up. In the end, all you'll have exposed is the Unistrut, and you should be able to get the projector right up to the ceiling.

If you planned right, you may even be able to get the projector right up to the ceiling and recess some of the mount right in the ceiling for a nice, snug fit like I did.

SC

Sorry, for the delay. I went looking for some very old pictures. In this picture you can see about 60% of the room's length, facing the intended screen wall. Notice on the floor the water stain of the original load-bearing wall, and above that (with offset) the 3xLVL beams recessed into the joist system.

In this picture you have a 180º about face view of the unfinished space. The 3xLVL's are above, there is a framed false wall blocking the windows (I later removed this).

As you enter this roof, the left-side of the door jamb will align with the front edge of the first row of seats. This is about the 12' mark from the screen wall, and the back of the intended first row seat would be about 14' from the screen wall. While not shown in these two old photos, there is now an installed electrical box above attached to the LVL farthest from the screen wall.

I have not yet taken recent pictures of the room because I was too embarrassed to show pictures of the wall sconce wires hanging out and the knob-less door. Mr. Green The floor is stained concrete as I've not installed any carpeting, no drapes (tailor isn't finished making them), and no furniture or speakers in the room. Its just drywalled, trimmed out, and painted.

Let me know if you still want pictures of the finished space.

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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have this problem. But, since I am not sure on the projector at this point it may be a while before projector installation is a real concern.
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jkruger




Joined: 24 Oct 2007
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Location: Carlsbad, CA


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would something like this work in your situation?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Chief-Internal-Joist-Mount-1-1-2-NPT-/400123020691?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2930c593
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