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Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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HK-Steve



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Switzerland

TV/Projector: Marquee 9500, Epson 8100


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
I can add some tid bits, or some bibs and bobs, maybe even some whatsomeacallits Laughing


Will look through what has been posted again, then throw a few things up here.



Cheers
Steve
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HK-Steve wrote:
I can add some tid bits, or some bibs and bobs, maybe even some whatsomeacallits Laughing


Will look through what has been posted again, then throw a few things up here.



Cheers
Steve


LOL, Thanks Steve. I have been thinking about all the things we talked about vis Skype and wish I had the time to try them out, and the money for the SMD chips id like to test. I know you are using some radial Sky Cap's in those places but I think
stacking SMD's might work better and also be much neater on the board.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:41 am    Post subject: how to lower rear heatsink temperature about 8-10 celcius Reply with quote

Hello. Here is latest mod. Marquees rear heatsink runs pretty hot and it gets itīs airflow from belly fans that push air inside of cabinet (trough FCM,HDM,tubes+VNBīs ) so air it that tryes to cool down rear heatsink is pretty much "pre heated" and also air flow is so low there that has not much "cooling power"

So i fabricated "copy" from rear heatsink cover ( yes i was feeling little bit like those sheet metal guys from American hot rod Laughing ) and made 120mm x 120mm hole for fan that pulls air out from cabinet + rear heatsink. Heatsink runs now about 8-10 celcius cooler and temperature inside of cabinet is also about 5 celcius lower.
Fan that i used was Silenx that doesend move much air and still that made great difference. Also that fan pushes hot air more forward so that air intake to VIM and CLM gets cooler air.



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_________________
Marquee 9500LC (Frankenyokes / Thomas electric tubes / HD-10L / +many modīs)
DVDO VP-50
New hobby, Rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2Rtpr1njs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZP9FEFXV5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j065vei6j6s
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JTS-Racing-team/204443719572685
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice Jarmo!!! Did you take the power for the fan from the two extra 24 volt fan pins on the back plane where the belly fans connect to or from somewhere else?

Hi Guys, Jarmo started a new post about the above fan mod, I am reposting it here for archive puroposes, Nice Work Jarmo!!

1031 wrote:
Ok. Here is latest mod. On this popular thread i posted little fan mod that has been great, it reduced greatly rear heatsink temp + internal temp. was lower also -> http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9608&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=340

Only problem was that gonvergence took some time to stabilize, mostly because heatsink was cooled better from the startup..
I decided to design controller that starts fan at certain temperature and then tries to keep heatsink temperature steady.
It is based to NTC-resistor that is connected to "voltage divider"(Ntc+R4) and that voltage is feedet to OP-ampīs inverting input.
Noninverting input gets adjustable "reference voltage" from R2 trimmer, that trimmer sets temperature point where fan is started. R1 trimmer is there to adjust gain of corretion (temperature/voltage to fan) without it (infinity resistance) that acts much like comparator-> fan on or off
Output of OP-amp is connected to base of transistor Q1 via r3 (220ohm) transistor acts like current apm. rest of componencs are for filtering (c3,c1) R1 (2,2ohm) is there for filtering+ it acts like fuse also (fusible 0.5w) D1 is there for correct polarity (ie. connecting voltages reversed does not harm any components) And those optional trimmers are just for alternative type of trimmers for board.

Here is how it works:
Time / Temperature / voltage to fan/ does fan spinn
17.55 / 24 / 1,39 / No
18.00/ 25 / 1,39 / No
18.05/ 30 / 1,40 / No
18.10/ 34 / 2,35 / No
18.12/ 35 / 4,70 / No
18.13/ 36 / 5,90 / No
18.14/ 36,5 / 7,30 / Yes
18.15/ 37 / 7,75 / Yes
18.20/ 38 / 8.80 / Yes
18.25/ 38 / 8,82 /Yes
12.30/ 38 / 8,88 / Yes
18.40/ 39 / 8,97 / Yes
19.00/ 39 / 9,10 /Yes

I have external powersupply (12v) that runs some of fans (belly+ that extra rear heatsink fan) So i desingnet alterative version if someone wants to build version that operates from same voltage (24v) that marquees belly fans are feedet.


Here are scematics and board layout pictures

1031 marquee rearheatsink fan controller 24v boar layout

1031 marquee rearheatsink fan controller 24v board layout and components

1031 marquee rearheatsink fan controller 24v scematic

1031 marquee rearheatsink fan controller 12v layout

1031 marquee rearheatsink fan controller 12v board plus component layout

1031 marquee rearheatsink fan controller 12v



And yes convergence is much more stable with this fan mod Mr. Green

Edit: 24v versions addet (24v in to the controller,12 volt out (max)to fan



Hope this helps everyone who wants to do this project.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal


Last edited by Nashou66 on Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Nice Jarmo!!! Did you take the power for the fan from the two extra 24 volt fan pins on the back plane where the belly fans connect to or from somewhere else?

Athanasios


Nope, i have external powersupply (12v) that runs belly+ that new rearheatsink fan. But those extra pins are great for that purpose, just use 24v fan

_________________
Marquee 9500LC (Frankenyokes / Thomas electric tubes / HD-10L / +many modīs)
DVDO VP-50
New hobby, Rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2Rtpr1njs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZP9FEFXV5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j065vei6j6s
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JTS-Racing-team/204443719572685
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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10645
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jarmo, do you have tight-fitting foam around your lenses? Galen told me the lens foam is a critical part of the cooling design. Without the foam, the air from the belly fans will go out the easiest path -- around the lenses -- and won't flow back over the rear heatsink. Since I switched to HD145 lenses the foam didn't fight snug around the lenses, so I took two ~ 3x3x10" pieces of foam and jammed them into the two gaps on either side of the tubes. That should block the airflow from going out around the lenses and send it to the heatsink where it belongs.

I never measured the temps but it was an easy fix. Smile
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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8784
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: how to lower rear heatsink temperature about 8-10 celciu Reply with quote

1031 wrote:
So i fabricated "copy" from rear heatsink cover ( yes i was feeling little bit like those sheet metal guys from American hot rod Laughing ) and made 120mm x 120mm hole for fan that pulls air out from cabinet + rear heatsink. Heatsink runs now about 8-10 celcius cooler and temperature inside of cabinet is also about 5 celcius lower.
.
that's a pretty big improvement, nice job.
It's good to see someone actually imporving and adding air-flow Thumbs Up I found it troublesome that so many people actually slow the fans down, not a good idea when these machines run so hot anyway.

_________________
MARQUEE HD MODS: Bring your Marquee CRT projector (or clone) back up to spec and offer even greater performance!
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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
Jarmo, do you have tight-fitting foam around your lenses? Galen told me the lens foam is a critical part of the cooling design. Without the foam, the air from the belly fans will go out the easiest path -- around the lenses -- and won't flow back over the rear heatsink. Since I switched to HD145 lenses the foam didn't fight snug around the lenses, so I took two ~ 3x3x10" pieces of foam and jammed them into the two gaps on either side of the tubes. That should block the airflow from going out around the lenses and send it to the heatsink where it belongs.

I never measured the temps but it was an easy fix. Smile


Yes, just few weeks back i fabricated new lens foam from 2" thick foam plastic from upholstery shop. I was quite easy to cut with really sharp kitchenknife. And after that i just spray painted foam with black paint... looks just as good as new original.

Here is picture from frieds M8000 that has hd-145 lenses and new foam



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_________________
Marquee 9500LC (Frankenyokes / Thomas electric tubes / HD-10L / +many modīs)
DVDO VP-50
New hobby, Rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2Rtpr1njs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZP9FEFXV5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j065vei6j6s
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JTS-Racing-team/204443719572685


Last edited by 1031 on Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:31 am; edited 2 times in total
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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: how to lower rear heatsink temperature about 8-10 celciu Reply with quote

draganm wrote:
that's a pretty big improvement, nice job.
It's good to see someone actually imporving and adding air-flow Thumbs Up I found it troublesome that so many people actually slow the fans down, not a good idea when these machines run so hot anyway.


Thanks!
I have played with too many fan mods with this marquee Mad silenx, cheap computer fans etc...( ok for that rear heatsink those are ok) Now i have four 120mmx120mm Papst fans at belly, before there was three. That was SHOCK to me that with four belly fan airflow was smaller than with three fans Rolling Eyes and with four fans projector is quieter ( that is clear sing that there is less airflow)
marquee needs belly fans that can give pressure so air flow is really pushed to right places through those relative small holes that distribute airflow from fan chamber. It is sad that is not the most silent way to cool things down. So that idea from add fan that sucks air from rearheat sink came to my mind (that idea was talked previos here or some another crt forum, but i havent never hear that someone had done that. least way i did that, i know that HK-Steve has rearheat sink fans, but those doesen suck air from cabinet side)
Also recent CLM failure gived enough reason add air flow
Sad

_________________
Marquee 9500LC (Frankenyokes / Thomas electric tubes / HD-10L / +many modīs)
DVDO VP-50
New hobby, Rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2Rtpr1njs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZP9FEFXV5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j065vei6j6s
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JTS-Racing-team/204443719572685
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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is few measurements, i tested with different fan this time-> Nexux d2sl-12 fan, that was much silent than SilenX.
With Silenx heatsink temp was 41 celsius and with Nexus it was 44 celcius.
I disconnected that rearheatsink fan and waited about 30 min, then heatsink was 52 celcius.



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_________________
Marquee 9500LC (Frankenyokes / Thomas electric tubes / HD-10L / +many modīs)
DVDO VP-50
New hobby, Rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2Rtpr1njs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZP9FEFXV5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j065vei6j6s
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JTS-Racing-team/204443719572685
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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10645
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! So have you seen any improved convergence stability or other improvements as a result?
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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
Nice! So have you seen any improved convergence stability or other improvements as a result?


My latest magnet setup vent so nice that i doesent use static gonvergence more than few "clicks" so gonvergense stability is not problem. I haven looked critical how another areas (dynamic gonvergence) behave after that fan mod.

Hmm.. Should i made that rear fan temperature controlled Wink So that heatsink gets its operating temp fast and then fan gets more voltage to keep temp stable.

_________________
Marquee 9500LC (Frankenyokes / Thomas electric tubes / HD-10L / +many modīs)
DVDO VP-50
New hobby, Rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2Rtpr1njs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZP9FEFXV5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j065vei6j6s
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JTS-Racing-team/204443719572685
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1031 wrote:
garyfritz wrote:
Nice! So have you seen any improved convergence stability or other improvements as a result?


My latest magnet setup vent so nice that i doesent use static gonvergence more than few "clicks" so gonvergense stability is not problem. I haven looked critical how another areas (dynamic gonvergence) behave after that fan mod.

Hmm.. Should i made that rear fan temperature controlled Wink So that heatsink gets its operating temp fast and then fan gets more voltage to keep temp stable.


Hmm that be a good idea, get the fans to turn on at 39-42 Celsius to keep the temp there. Other wise it will fluctuate too much at the beginning or take too long to reach that temp.


But I think the three VNB's would benefit the most from running as cool as possible, make a single fan system with ducts to feed the VNBs fresh cool air from outside the case.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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CRT_Ben



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Athan, forgive my electrical ignorance here. I'm ordering parts to do the P14 fix on the many LVPS's I have here, so I started looking at Newark. I went through their menus and searched for 470ohm metal film resistors, but I have 37 choices - what tolerance, temp handling and wattage is required? I'm guessing that 1% tolerance (thus +/- 4.7ohms) is fine given the adjustment range (20ohms) the trim pot gives us, and that standard temp ranges like 55-125* C would work, but I have no idea on the wattage.

Looking at 20ohm trim pots it also seems that there are 5-10 choices that look exactly alike (blue box with trim screw to the side). What attributes am I looking for in the trim pot?

Thanks in advance! Thumbs Up
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ralpharch



Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Derwood


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To reduce the rear heat sink temp (and maybe to minimize an existing intermittent (temperature related?) vertical sync problem) I was thinking of removing the cover from the heat sink and finding a way to secure the bottom cover (ceiling mounted) without the need for the heat sink cover.

Your thoughts on that approach versus the fan mod?
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ben, just use a half watt rating. Look at the physical size too to make sure it's not too large.

For the trim pot make sure it's the adjuster on the side as it's easier to adjust while still on the Pj.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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View user's photo album (1 photos)
Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ralpharch wrote:
To reduce the rear heat sink temp (and maybe to minimize an existing intermittent (temperature related?) vertical sync problem) I was thinking of removing the cover from the heat sink and finding a way to secure the bottom cover (ceiling mounted) without the need for the heat sink cover.

Your thoughts on that approach versus the fan mod?


you should keep it on if your not adding a fan, the reason is that the back cover directs the airflow from the tube chanles around the back heat sink

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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View user's photo album (1 photos)
CRT_Ben



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Hi Ben, just use a half watt rating. Look at the physical size too to make sure it's not too large.

For the trim pot make sure it's the adjuster on the side as it's easier to adjust while still on the Pj.

Athanasios


OK - I have parts I think will work, can you verify before I order 10 each and they turn out to be wrong? Smile

Resistor:
http://www.newark.com/welwyn/mfr4-470r-1/metal-film/dp/97K4897

Trimpot: The only thing that worries me about this one is the data sheet says max input voltage is 2V Confused
http://www.newark.com/vishay-bc-components/ct94ex200/cermet-trimmer/dp/32M8784

Thanks!
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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben, i have used 50 ohm insted of 20 ohm just because some lvpsīs doesend give full 6.35v with that 470+20 ohm trimmer combo.
http://www.newark.com/vishay-bc-components/ct94ex200/cermet-trimmer/dp/32M8784
that type seems to be ok for lvps but select 50 ohm one to get proper 6,35v out after mod.

_________________
Marquee 9500LC (Frankenyokes / Thomas electric tubes / HD-10L / +many modīs)
DVDO VP-50
New hobby, Rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2Rtpr1njs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZP9FEFXV5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j065vei6j6s
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JTS-Racing-team/204443719572685
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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ralpharch wrote:
To reduce the rear heat sink temp (and maybe to minimize an existing intermittent (temperature related?) vertical sync problem) I was thinking of removing the cover from the heat sink and finding a way to secure the bottom cover (ceiling mounted) without the need for the heat sink cover.

Your thoughts on that approach versus the fan mod?


Like Athanasios said it is better keep cover in place so airflow cools heatsink, ask if Curt have extra coverīs so you can test that fan mod.
But that fan mod is not repair (for that vert.sync problem) just firts aid.

_________________
Marquee 9500LC (Frankenyokes / Thomas electric tubes / HD-10L / +many modīs)
DVDO VP-50
New hobby, Rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2Rtpr1njs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZP9FEFXV5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j065vei6j6s
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JTS-Racing-team/204443719572685


Last edited by 1031 on Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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