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FAQ: Marquee HD Mods by DraganM
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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8777
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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WTS wrote:
Hi Drag,
I'm not going to comment in your thread here because what you're doing is nothing more than bringing the unit back to newer condition by replacing tired components and it has nothing to do with modifying any circuitry
your not going to comment but then proceed to make an ignorant comment. Adding over 130 higher quality components which reduce noise and add thermal stability is a modification. It's not a huge modification but the results from user testimonials speak for themselves.

WTS wrote:
but of course replacing tired components is always a good thing. Whether your pricing or work is worth the asking price that will be up the individual interested in your services.
thanks for pointing out the obvious. Is there any product out there who's value is not determined by the buyer?
Walter why are you even posting in this thread, I thought I made it clear at AVS that I have zero interest in talking to you.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1113960&page=2&highlight=white+paper
Your propensity to completely avoid any technical aspects of a thread and jump right into attacking someones character or credibility is dissapointing, please take your negative comments somewhere else.

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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a pill partner, my comment wasn't meant to be negative', A$$HOLE.

Here's a guy who hasn't had a day of electronics class theory thinking he's an expert on electronics, nice work!

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

same old Walter, name calling and character assaination. At least your consistent with your old curmudgeony self. It's a good thing you took that electronics course 30 years ago for credibility because I haven't seen you post one intelligent thing on the topic of electronics, just the insults which your good at. Try not to beat your dog tonight, OK? Laughing
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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why should I post anything about electronics here when there is an expert like yourself here to spread the word.

I tryed to post some info on the other site but good ole you with all your worldly knowledge about electronics tryed to dispell what I was trying to say. Basically calling me a liar and not knowing what I was talking about so why should I try and compete with an A-hole like yourself who just likes to BS people about how he thinks he knows about the subject and hear himself talk, no thanks.
I prefer to converse with people who actually want to learn something or want to discuss the topic of electronics like tse (Scott), MP, beun (Kim), Bill Blue etc., unlike you who figures he knows it all yet hasn't the first clue about it. But you're smart because you read a few notes on some manufactures website, yeah that makes you the expert. Just keep living in your little dream world.

As for my first post in your thread, it was meant to support your claims not to knock them down, but you're to F--king stupid to see that because you're so high on yourself.

I've let my work and help to others like Moome/Kim/BillBlue/MP speak for itself, I don't need to come here and BS or brag about what I know. Besides I never claimed to be an expert on or at anything.

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Draganm is claiming to be an expert in Electronics or that he Studied EE. He is just offering to do the work of replacing aging Caps on the Boards that he has personally done for himslef and seen a difference in the operation of the Projectors. Some of his friends also had him do this for them and probably encouraged him to offer his services to do the work for others who don't have the soldering skills, patience, or time to do it for them selves. Walt you have given me much needed advice about what i was doing on my continuation of the MP maintenance thread and I appreciate this.
But this is a faqs thread on a service offered by a forum member who is contributing a percentage of the sales to the Forum. First it was MP, who even you argued with about his own claims, and now you, Walt , are trying to deride what I think is something that all Projectors that are over 10 years old should have done. I think kal should erase all posts or this entire thread and make a new one. The unprofessionalism of how its turning out wont help anyone here.

Athanasios( just a CRT hobbyist learning the ropes himself)

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
I think kal should erase all posts or this entire thread and make a new one. The unprofessionalism of how its turning out wont help anyone here.

DraganM: Let me know if you want this done. I can remove everything except for the original post and go from there. I'm not sure it won't just happen all over again but who knows...

Kal

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
I tryed to post some info on the other site but good ole you with all your worldly knowledge about electronics tryed to dispell what I was trying to say. Basically calling me a liar and not knowing what I was talking about so why should I try and compete with an A-hole like yourself who just likes to BS people about how he thinks he knows about the subject and hear himself talk, no thanks.
go back and read the post again Walter. I tried to disagree with you politely and even joke around about it but it was all in a vain. For some reason, simply disagreeing with you about something as simple as speccing a capacitor was on par with "calling you a liar". I will admit that when someone looses their cool in a thread I tend to push their buttons even more . It's not the right thing to do but I get pissed off too when someone says" "you don't know what your talking about" or " the information you posted on this topic is irrelevant because you don't have the right background".
It's not my fault that there was a detailed technical paper to support my opinion and that that opinion is contrary to how you choose a capacitor. That AVS post came right before my work was to be advertised here and I felt the need to defend it. IT had nothing to do with you personally.

WTS wrote:
As for my first post in your thread, it was meant to support your claims not to knock them down, but you're to F--king stupid to see that because you're so high on yourself.
Walter you should try the "preview post" button and see see how something will look before you put it up. This post below was not supportive but in fact condescending
WTS wrote:
Hi Drag,
I'm not going to comment in your thread here because what you're doing is nothing more than bringing the unit back to newer condition by replacing tired components and it has nothing to do with modifying any circuitry, but of course replacing tired components is always a good thing. Whether your pricing or work is worth the asking price that will be up the individual interested in your services.
terms like "nothing more" and "whether your work is worth the asking price" are thinly veiled criticism of which there's already been to much of since page 2.

WTS wrote:
I've let my work and help to others like Moome/Kim/BillBlue/MP speak for itself, I don't need to come here and BS or brag about what I know. Besides I never claimed to be an expert on or at anything.
I'm not here to brag either. I'm here to offer a service and help support the forum in a small way. I'm trying to do that while Walter and Mike Parker disparage and belittle my work, thanks a lot.
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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:
I think kal should erase all posts or this entire thread and make a new one. The unprofessionalism of how its turning out wont help anyone here.

DraganM: Let me know if you want this done. I can remove everything except for the original post and go from there. I'm not sure it won't just happen all over again but who knows...

Kal
thanks but this argument is far from over so I doubt it's worth starting over. There will be a few reviews coming in that will stoke this fire again. I think if I had sprinkled fairy dust on the Marquee and claimed a picture improvement, then sold the dust in little $100. vials it would have caused less trouble than my honest hard work .
luckily as you pointed out only 200 of the 15K CP.com registered users actually read the forum.
On a positive note, I've started offering LC chamber re-bellows for $200. + $25. return shipping per tube when done with the FDC mod's. That's less than half the $450. price that VDC charges and it's a good way to fix that leak, replace that old yellow glycol with fresh Techspray CRT coolant, and re-rebuild your projector all at the same time for a reasonable cost. Thumbs Up

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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI Draganm,

I don't know what to say so I'll say I apologize for any thing negative I might have said and for calling you an Ahole.

But just to set the record straight, what you're doing is great for the people who can't do it for themselves and that part of it I never said I had a problem with. When I said you're simply bringing the projector back to newer condition by replacing tired caps was meant to a positive to others reading this thread. I said nothing about whether it will improve the noise level etc etc because I have no idea what your exacting replacing and with what.

As for the pricing of your services I see nothing wrong with what I said in that it's basically up to the individual if they think it is a good deal for them. Again it was meant to be positive not negative.

What I do have a problem with is you coming across to the members here that you're any kind knowledgable person in the field of electronics.

My intent when I posted in your thread was not to bash you at all but your response spurred it on, sorry pal. And you're right, my fires start pretty quick.

Walter

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WTS



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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Draganm,

As to your question about why don't I jump in and answer other questions that are posted on this forum. I'm not an expert in CRTs (never claimed to be either) and have only every worked on 2 projectors, the first one I owned which was an Ampro 3600HT and my present Zenith 1200. I don't answer because there are more qualified people than myself to answer most of them. But if you want to talk about designing a circuit or modding one then I might have something to say.

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dturco



Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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TV/Projector: Runco DLP VX-3000i Marquee 9500 parts doner


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is it that everyone who is beating-up on Dragan is saying the same thing? It's not your work, but the use of Mod, Modded, or better than stock,that's causing such animosity.

Any change at all from the original is a modification.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/modify

Let the FAQ thread be about the WORK not the theories of electronics.

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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
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TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

draganm wrote:
I'm here to offer a service and help support the forum in a small way. I'm trying to do that while Walter and Mike Parker disparage and belittle my work, thanks a lot.


In a phone conversation with another forum member awhile back, this thread came up, and the person I was talking with indicated to me that I had been very clear that I was only responding to my mods being mentioned in this thread. And they also said that I had been very clear in indicating that. I looked over the thread, and I'm still having a hard time understanding where and how that I've done what you claim here: "disparage and belittle my work"

If in fact there is a mention of me saying that what you claim, I apologize. In no way, was that my intent or from what i read and what I'm told, it's not clear in this thread that i was doing anything other than saying what I know for a fact would not happen with MY work.
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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
HI Draganm,I don't know what to say so I'll say I apologize for any thing negative I might have said and for calling you an Ahole. But just to set the record straight, what you're doing is great for the people who can't do it for themselves and that part of it I never said I had a problem with. When I said you're simply bringing the projector back to newer condition by replacing tired caps was meant to a positive to others reading this thread. I said nothing about whether it will improve the noise level etc etc because I have no idea what your exacting replacing and with what. What I do have a problem with is you coming across to the members here that you're any kind knowledgable person in the field of electronics.
My intent when I posted in your thread was not to bash you at all but your response spurred it on, sorry pal. And you're right, my fires start pretty quick.

Walter
Walter I'm more than happy to bury the hatchet , there's a bunch in this thread to bury too. I offer my apologies as well for instigating. The only thing I've ever claimed any "expertise" on to a limited extent is the marquee. I've been working on them for over 6 years and very familiar with how the machine behaves ins stock form. That's the only reason I guarantee my work, it makes a modest improvement that I can plainly see. As with your Ampros and Barco's, I rarely post comments on any other projector model. The marquee takes slightly larger caps very well and they fit very well with no bending or piggy-backing over existing parts. They also perform well with reduced noise both in the projected image and on the DC power rails with less heat generated. I would not presume to choose or recommend parts for any other eletronics device.

dturco wrote:
Why is it that everyone who is beating-up on Dragan is saying the same thing? It's not your work, but the use of Mod, Modded, or better than stock,that's causing such animosity.
Any change at all from the original is a modification.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/modify
Let the FAQ thread be about the WORK not the theories of electronics.
yeah I don't know either but it's a good question. IT seems like if your not swapping in different op-amps and stacking up buffering caps like pan-cakes your not really truly modifying. One thing I'm proud of is that after my work is done anyone not familiar with the stock board would be hard pressed to identify it as a modified board without a direct comparison to an an original one, at which point the work would be obvious.
Of course given plenty of time I could take this further, at the very least start doing the VDC 1080P peaking circuit to the VIM but it would raise the cost . Affordability was 1 of 2 priority's on my agenda, so I limited this to something that adds both reliability and performance for a reasonable cost.
MAybe we should call the FDC mod's "mildly modified and heavily rebuilt". At any rate I doubt there's a description that will make everyone happy. I really need to scope some of these boards and shift the argument in a new direction.

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Nashou66



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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Draganm, on your last comment about scoping the boards, I have done that after i have done the same capacitor upgrades but using the Panasonic FC and Fm caps and some nichicons where i could not find the Panny's. I did not do the scoping to see if noise was diminished because I was scoping two marquees looking for a fault i had on the stock one. While doing this I noticed the wave forms and signals going to their respective destinations were more noise free, that is a smoother and less erratic wave form on the scope. I did not look at the power supply rails in depth as it was not the problem on the stock board so I can not say if the power rails were cleaned up with the other cap upgrades. But From my Focus board upgrade and as MP has also noticed this on his own FCM that some filtering on that boards power supplies along with Inductors has Also done the same in cleaning up the wave forms there.
So There is more room for improvement on the CVA and VDM bye cleaning up the power rails with either just an inductor or a LC filter, also by changing out the op-amps on the VDM. HK-Steve has done this as well as extensive rail filtering on each chip through out the marquee. He has seen massive drop in noise across the marquee's power rails and signal waveforms . So I suggest you do get out that scope and do some investigating and post your results here along with scope pics of a stock machine and a upgraded machine i think your point will be proved Smile

Athanasios

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Spanky Ham



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PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal,
Why don't you split all of the replies off into its own thread?
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
Kal,
Why don't you split all of the replies off into its own thread?

As Dragan mentioned it's likely that comments will continue here regardless of what we do, which is probably completely true. I forgot about that. Someone will post a question to Dragan and I'm sure someone other than Dragan will feel that it's their place to post a response about what his service does or doesn't do.

Case in point: I've mentioned to some of the contributors of this thread that this isn't the right spot to post certain comments or suggestions and after they agreed they still came back a few weeks later and continued doing the same thing. I don't have time or interest to monitor and babysit what people do in every thread on this forum unfortunately.

Kal

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mp20748 wrote:
If in fact there is a mention of me saying that what you claim, I apologize. In no way, was that my intent or from what i read and what I'm told, it's not clear in this thread that i was doing anything other than saying what I know for a fact would not happen with MY work. The Mikron mods have about 26 inductors added to the video chain. The two DC rails are decoupled, and so are the control lines from the rest of the projector. And if it was possible to make that level of improvements to what I've been doing over the past 7 years, I would have offered it along time ago. Changing caps on the deflection, convergence and focus modes would not make any changes at all to improve the performance of the mods. I'm only speaking on my work
you keep saying it has nothing to do with your work. Can you elaborate on that? What I find confusing is that a marquee only puts out 1 picture. You can't save different recall memory's to activate the MP video chain, or the FDC re-built boards or whatever. From what Ive read and tried to undertsand, you have indicated that after the MP video chain is installed nothing else done to the other boards could possibly improve the picture from a Marquee any further? Your perfectly entilted to this belief / opinion, even in this thread.
However, My opinion is that even the most comprehensive filtering or buffering cannot completely eliminate the noise being generated by the other boards, especially the CVA. a Stock CVA is an awful board. When actively converging, even on low hour machines, i've actually seen little while flashes/sparkles appear on the screen. This is in addition to the constant judder of the raster from this board that Athanasios described earlier. So my question is:

1) How can the MP video chain completely filter this out and
2) if it can't, then how can this noise possibly not affect the image quality being projected on the screen?

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Nashou66



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually MP's video mods have massive filtering for those boards alone, but what he doesn't realize is they do nothing for the CVA and VDM and HDM which in turn help paint the image on the screen as we have been trying to explain. You can have the cleanest most pristine video signal going all the way to the pins on the CRT tube neck but if those lines that are being controlled by the convergence coil and the deflection coils are not stable because the boards that control those coils are aged and not performing up to par, as when new, then that pristine video signal wont be fully realized on the screen. Now this does not alter anything MP has done nor will it Improve anything He has done but it will allow what he has done to be fully realized, which I think is very very important.

Athanasios

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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

draganm wrote:

1) How can the MP video chain completely filter this out and
2) if it can't, then how can this noise possibly not affect the image quality being projected on the screen?


I take it you're asking me to respond to you on this. If that's the case, here's my answer.

On what I posted here: "Changing caps on the deflection, convergence and focus modes would not make any changes at all to improve the performance of the mods. I'm only speaking on my work

Please by all means find me an engineer or someone else that's very familiar with these circuits to dispute me here. It would be nice if Curt, tse, WTS, Kim or one of the other well known techy guys could chime in and please explain to me that i could be possibly wrong here.

First let me say this before they do. In what I've been doing in my Mikron mods, there are over 40 inductors added to the three boards that I modify. In my use of these inductors I'm filtering (decoupling) each control line that leads from other areas in the projector to the video chain. I'm also filtering each of the DC rails, to include specifically tuned pull-caps at each chips +/- supply.

Now, if the rails have been frequency decoupled from the rest of the set, likewise with the control lines, sync, etc also having specially tuned inductor networks also isolating them from the noise in the set, how could cap changes in other ares of the set make a change in these circuits?

And before someone answers, let me say that over the past 6 years, there have been two non published websites where myself and several other forum members have done exhaustive research into improving the Marquee (WTS is well aware of this). Not only that, but I have also spent countless hours and research into this same matter. And that's why I did not get into offering it, mainly because myself and some others could not see any changes when capping the boards that you mentioned. Now, there are way to make changes with some of the boards, but they are not in discussion here.


Now for the record, let's stay clear that I'm not saying what you're doing will not make image quality changes. I'm saying that it will not effect the Mikrons. I can say that because I've also capped boards and like I said before, the perfect example of what I've been saying here is right there in Williams setup. he has a Marquee that once belonged to Mark Hahlich, that is very heavily capped everywhere. It is right next to the 8500 Ultra chassis that I sold him, and if I remember correctly, there's not a cap change on the whole rear heat sinks boards. I may have changed a few caps in a few other board for maintenance purposes only, but that's all. And he told me that you had contacted him about this, and you were informed about one Marquee having the large special caps and what was not obvious in the other. And that there's no difference between the two. This is one of the "facts" that I've been referring to.



Nashou66 wrote:
Actually MP's video mods have massive filtering for those boards alone, but what he doesn't realize is they do nothing for the CVA and VDM and HDM which in turn help paint the image on the screen as we have been trying to explain.


The experts are here on the forum, can one of them please explain this?



Quote:
You can have the cleanest most pristine video signal going all the way to the pins on the CRT tube neck but if those lines that are being controlled by the convergence coil and the deflection coils are not stable because the boards that control those coils are aged and not performing up to par, as when new, then that pristine video signal wont be fully realized on the screen. Now this does not alter anything MP has done nor will it Improve anything He has done but it will allow what he has done to be fully realized, which I think is very very important.

Athanasios


Again, can someone please support this. I've been poking around in this set for the past 7 years, and nothing here makes any sense based on what I've seen and have found out for myself. And that includes some others. Again, I'm asking if it would make changes to a projector that is heavily De-coupled using frequency determined (various inductances) inductors.

My problem with this type of posting is that Neither Anhanasios or Dragen has either seen or tested these theories, yet as being one who has done it to various degrees with my own work, I'm being disputed.

Here's another fact. The Marquee 9500LC ullra that I have on my ceiling. The one I have been squeezing every bit of performance out of, does not have a cap change on any of the boards mentioned, with the only exception being the focus board, which has been modified for the Barco 909 focus coils.

I think I need to say this one more time. I'm ONLY talking about changes being made when using my Mikrons.

Again, can the experts help me out here?
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Nashou66



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well one of the experts here on the forum who works on these day in and day
out has specificly told me to look at the CVA, he said all marquees grids move
and stabilizing the CVA board will make improvements to the image.
That is what I am talking about, changing caps has helped here some
but I am sure there is more that can be done using inductors
or a simple LC filter in certain places .

I assume these changes would Also help some of the other boards
as a start, but I am sure more could be done to those boards.

Mike I am not knocking what your mods will do to a stock
Marquee at all, but if the other boards work at their best then
your mods will work better as a result as excellent as they already
are. Thumbs Up

Athanasios

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