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Continued Blending of the Longbow's & Now 9 " Swap!
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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8775
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Nashou66 wrote:
Yepp it is cool! I tried a bunch of times to get it right(the pink) but to get the proper black levels my BH200 is causing the problem... it has too hot an output it seams, It has a Qdeo processor in it which is defeat-able.

Athanasios
why would the LG DVD player cause one side to be a different color balance though? If the blender is taking the video signal, splitting it it, and sending the same signal to both PJ's then the video signal should be the same to both right?
I think i'm missing something here?
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its not causing one side to be different, that is the PJ it self not being calibrated. But the LG just makes it harder to calibrate because of its doing something to the black levels, even if i turn of the Qdeo and set the black level to 0 not 7.5 i cant get the plug pattern correctly set to begin the calibration using Kals guide as an example. where you need to set the contrast and brightness of the Pj using the DVE plug pattern, the 4 greyscale bars in the middle and the three black bars on each side. if i set the contrast and brightness levels for those in the marquee they are below 30 for both, and i know from experience that is not right.
I should try the Bh200 straight to each moome card and see what that does... it might be the tv-one units? But I dought it. I started by setting up everything like in Tim martins Greyscale tip first, I then use the DVE disc to set the contrast and brightness as per Kals guide as well. this is where I need to go way way low for contrast and brightness. if i dont do anyhting and put up a greyscale pattern from the DVE disc its way to washed out the blackest bars are grey and the black background is grey as well. its definitely the player. I need to investigate it more.

Athanasios

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MikeEby



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5236
Location: Osceola, Indiana


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure it's not the Moome muxer causing the "hot" signal? Many of the early moome boxes did not output the correct color space. My Moome DVI card was an example, it was hot...I had black crush city.

Mike

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Last edited by MikeEby on Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5359
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Mike do you have the align pattern? My Bh200 had a USB drive input for png and jpeg among other file formats. I could try it that way.

Athanasios


here ya go:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Video-Tweak/Align-Test-Pattern-Generator.shtml
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeEby wrote:
Are you sure it's not the Moome muxer causing the "hot" signal? Many of the early moome boxes did not output the correct color space. My Moome DVI card was an example, it was hot I had black crush city.

Mike


I tired it before i split the signal, it had the same affect and in my old system I used the Mux also with the BH100.
That player loooked fine. I am going to first swap player to see what the BH100 looks like, then put the Bh200 directly into the moome( Bh100 only outs 24hz signal)

Athanasios

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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5359
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tri_joel wrote:
Mike-

Do you know who did the blend at the Mount Vernon museum?


based on what Clarence posted, it's a company known around here in A/V as D&P. I'm not aware of that install, but would like to check it out.
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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5359
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:

I tired it before i split the signal, it had the same affect and in my old system I used the Mux also with the BH100.
That player loooked fine. I am going to first swap player to see what the BH100 looks like, then put the Bh200 directly into the moome( Bh100 only outs 24hz signal)

Athanasios


one of the problem with doing blends is knowing where to start. I was also where you are all up until two years ago. though I've maintained several blend setups before then, It's not something that I had a system for doing. It was only until I had to meet another tech at a job site that I was to become the new guy on that setup. We did the setup and maintenance together. It was then that we were able to put our experiences together, and after that, I had a better method for making things happen faster, better and more accurate with blends.

Without the right method, it'll be like shooting in the dark... you will eventually hit the target, and even then, it's not going to be a bullseye, nor will you know how to achieve the same results if you had to do it again.

One other thing. Forget about the commonly known or mention blend zone window. That window depends on the blend unit itself. So depending on the blend unit, for best results, you'll find that you'll have to determine the best blend zone based on the blender itself. And that may require that you move the projectors closer and further apart from each other as you work for the best blend zone.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
One other thing. Forget about the commonly known or mention blend zone window. That window depends on the blend unit itself. So depending on the blend unit, for best results, you'll find that you'll have to determine the best blend zone based on the blender itself. And that may require that you move the projectors closer and further apart from each other as you work for the best blend zone.


Exactly what i found out, the first attempt the Pj's were in different locations and the zone was very small with this attempt in the pics, the zone is larger and more where i think it should be. But with out each Pj calibrated its going to be visible color wise, pan wise i don't see it now where before I had a distortion as objects moved through the zone.
Now its not noticeable, but i am sure i can get it better.

I agree with you Mike on having another person around. I have no one near me when i got my first marquee and did it all alone after many many trials and errors. Doing my first stack was not too hard and much less work than a blend for sure. if there was another person here It be much easier and more fun too. Sometime you need that second set of eyes and that second brain to see and think what your not.

I'll get there guys.. i am 100% sure and will master it too. the Tv-One units are the easy part like i said before.
aligning geometrically two PJ's in the blend zone is the hardest part along with equal greyscale/colorimetry .

Now i am going to google that ALIGN pattern.

Athansios

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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5359
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It took two of us with different ideas to establish a clear method of doing it properly, other than that, Blending is best done with one person.

I posted a link to the align software previously:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Video-Tweak/Align-Test-Pattern-Generator.shtml
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh thanks I musta miss'd it !!

Nashou

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the mirror to download it is dead.. any where else to get it?

Athanasios

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Zebu Fellenz



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567



PostLink    Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may be on the E-tech site?
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wkosmann



Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 387
Location: Middleburg, Virginia

TV/Projector: Blended Matched MP Mod'd Electrohome Marquee 9500LC Ultras


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athanasios

I sent a copy of the Align.exe file to you via PM yesterday.

William

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wkosmann wrote:
Athanasios

I sent a copy of the Align.exe file to you via PM yesterday.

William


oops!1 my PM box was full!

I got it from tims site, now do you need a pC that can do 1080p out? my laptop only goes to 1080i i think, i could just go dtraight intot he PJ and not trough the VP then right? it be a different frequency but it be close and then i could touch up after.... I hope. Any thoughts?



Athanasios

_________________
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25459
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
wkosmann wrote:
Athanasios

I sent a copy of the Align.exe file to you via PM yesterday.

William


oops!1 my PM box was full!

I got it from tims site, now do you need a pC that can do 1080p out? my laptop only goes to 1080i i think, i could just go dtraight intot he PJ and not trough the VP then right? it be a different frequency but it be close and then i could touch up after.... I hope. Any thoughts?



Athanasios


If you can set your laptop to 1920x1080 @60Hz it will be putting out 1080p.
1080i is the hard one to get a video card to put out, usually.

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tse



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
its not causing one side to be different, that is the PJ it self not being calibrated. But the LG just makes it harder to calibrate because of its doing something to the black levels, even if i turn of the Qdeo and set the black level to 0 not 7.5 i cant get the plug pattern correctly set to begin the calibration using Kals guide as an example. where you need to set the contrast and brightness of the Pj using the DVE plug pattern, the 4 greyscale bars in the middle and the three black bars on each side. if i set the contrast and brightness levels for those in the marquee they are below 30 for both, and i know from experience that is not right.
I should try the Bh200 straight to each moome card and see what that does... it might be the tv-one units? But I dought it. I started by setting up everything like in Tim martins Greyscale tip first, I then use the DVE disc to set the contrast and brightness as per Kals guide as well. this is where I need to go way way low for contrast and brightness. if i dont do anyhting and put up a greyscale pattern from the DVE disc its way to washed out the blackest bars are grey and the black background is grey as well. its definitely the player. I need to investigate it more.

Athanasios


Here is a good place to break out the scope and check for correct amplitude (0.7V from black to white when terminated with 75 ohms) of the video outputs. A standard vertical gray bar test pattern makes it easy to find crush at either black or white ends. You could very well be fighting a video problem.

That's going to be a fantastic set-up when you get it done.

Scott

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8775
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
its not causing one side to be different, that is the PJ it self not being calibrated. But the LG just makes it harder to calibrate because of its doing something to the black levels, even if i turn of the Qdeo and set the black level to 0 not 7.5 i cant get the plug pattern correctly if i set the contrast and brightness levels for those in the marquee they are below 30 for both, and i know from experience that is not right.Athanasios
I don't know about contrast but those machines will have the TSB done to the VIM that get's rid of the faint line on the right side of the screen and it kicks up Brightness quite a bit. Typically this TSB forces Brightness settings in the PJ down into the 30's after its done.
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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10629
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. That's one mod I haven't done, and I badly need it. The line isn't all that faint in any kind of dark scene -- very distracting. I've been swamped for the last 6 months but I'm getting a breather now. Time to yank that VIM!
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tse wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:
its not causing one side to be different, that is the PJ it self not being calibrated. But the LG just makes it harder to calibrate because of its doing something to the black levels, even if i turn of the Qdeo and set the black level to 0 not 7.5 i cant get the plug pattern correctly set to begin the calibration using Kals guide as an example. where you need to set the contrast and brightness of the Pj using the DVE plug pattern, the 4 greyscale bars in the middle and the three black bars on each side. if i set the contrast and brightness levels for those in the marquee they are below 30 for both, and i know from experience that is not right.
I should try the Bh200 straight to each moome card and see what that does... it might be the tv-one units? But I dought it. I started by setting up everything like in Tim martins Greyscale tip first, I then use the DVE disc to set the contrast and brightness as per Kals guide as well. this is where I need to go way way low for contrast and brightness. if i dont do anyhting and put up a greyscale pattern from the DVE disc its way to washed out the blackest bars are grey and the black background is grey as well. its definitely the player. I need to investigate it more.

Athanasios


Here is a good place to break out the scope and check for correct amplitude (0.7V from black to white when terminated with 75 ohms) of the video outputs. A standard vertical gray bar test pattern makes it easy to find crush at either black or white ends. You could very well be fighting a video problem.

That's going to be a fantastic set-up when you get it done.

Scott


yeah I was thinking of hooking up the scope to the rgb outs from the moome card pinout/input on the Vim.
If the BH200 does do that then i'll have to be patient and set the grey scale stair step pattern the hard way of going back and forth into the BH200's contrast and brightness menu then back tot he grey scale pattern on the scope, so it should go from 0.0 VDC top 0.7 on the ramp, is this correct scott?

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


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tse



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.


PostLink    Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
tse wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:
its not causing one side to be different, that is the PJ it self not being calibrated. But the LG just makes it harder to calibrate because of its doing something to the black levels, even if i turn of the Qdeo and set the black level to 0 not 7.5 i cant get the plug pattern correctly set to begin the calibration using Kals guide as an example. where you need to set the contrast and brightness of the Pj using the DVE plug pattern, the 4 greyscale bars in the middle and the three black bars on each side. if i set the contrast and brightness levels for those in the marquee they are below 30 for both, and i know from experience that is not right.
I should try the Bh200 straight to each moome card and see what that does... it might be the tv-one units? But I dought it. I started by setting up everything like in Tim martins Greyscale tip first, I then use the DVE disc to set the contrast and brightness as per Kals guide as well. this is where I need to go way way low for contrast and brightness. if i dont do anyhting and put up a greyscale pattern from the DVE disc its way to washed out the blackest bars are grey and the black background is grey as well. its definitely the player. I need to investigate it more.

Athanasios


Here is a good place to break out the scope and check for correct amplitude (0.7V from black to white when terminated with 75 ohms) of the video outputs. A standard vertical gray bar test pattern makes it easy to find crush at either black or white ends. You could very well be fighting a video problem.

That's going to be a fantastic set-up when you get it done.

Scott


yeah I was thinking of hooking up the scope to the rgb outs from the moome card pinout/input on the Vim.
If the BH200 does do that then i'll have to be patient and set the grey scale stair step pattern the hard way of going back and forth into the BH200's contrast and brightness menu then back tot he grey scale pattern on the scope, so it should go from 0.0 VDC top 0.7 on the ramp, is this correct scott?

Athanasios


The VDC level isn't important going into the VIM as the signal is AC coupled through caps then DC restored in the first opamp section. Check that the white is 0.7V more than the black (when properly terminated) and that neither end is crushed.

Scott

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