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Considering size restraints in the apartment, which would you choose? |
NEC 6pg Xtra |
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66% |
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Epson Powerlite HC700/W6 |
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33% |
[ 1 ] |
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Total Votes : 3 |
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buschdogg
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 25
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:29 am Post subject: Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 700 vs W6 vs my NEC PG6 Xtra |
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Hey guys,
I've currently got an NEC 6PG Xtra. It's pretty good, but I've got a little bit of a convergence issue near the very bottom of the screen and I haven't bothered to attempt a setup again due to it taking sooo long the first time.
Anyway, I've been looking at digital projectors and I've thought alot about the Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 700, and the W6. I know most people here HATE digital projectors, and I don't argue that the CRTs are much better, but I'm not nearly as much a videophile as I am an audiophile, and I think a digital projector would look fine to me (and be much brighter). The real reason is that I live in a 1 bedroom apartment and the throw distance for the projector makes it take up too much space... not to mention it is huge itself. That said, what do you guys think of the home cinema 700 and W6? What are the differences between them? The only thing I can find is that the W6 is 100 bucks cheaper, but is identical otherwise! Also, I can't find ANY real reviews about these projectors... has anyone seen them? They are 1280x800, 2000 lumens, have hdmi inputs, bulbs last up to 4000 hours in eco mode (important to me as a gamer..), and they (bulbs) only cost 199 to replace.
What do you guys think? I've been trying to get rid of the NEC, but at the same time, I want to know how much I'll miss the quality... but I can't find the epson anwhere to actually see how good/bad it looks!
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10273
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like you are looking for an easy-maintenance solution rather than one more for a tiny environment. I think your answer can be found on AVS.
_________________ Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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buschdogg
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 25
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't mind if it were easier to setup, but I've gone through the setups before.. it's not that big a deal, it's more that I can't even fill up my 92" screen fully because I sold my vph-1271 and got this NEC, which has a much better image, but has a longer throw distance... and as is it's pushing up against my couch all the way across the room, and I don't want to go smaller with my screen when I could just mount a smaller projector on the ceiling. (No way am I trying to mount the NEC up there in this apt!)
I also wouldn't mind having HDMI inputs without having to buy a scaler/hdfury, etc. etc.
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Curt Palme CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 24296 Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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You've pretty much answered your own question. You don't like the setup and want a plug and play option. That's the reason most people go digital.
As with anything, go see a unit in action before buying. Expect to get about 3500 hours of use out of the unit, or about 2 bulb lifespans, or 5 years, whatever comes first.
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, if you want something smaller and easier to deal with, go for it.
One warning: One little-discussed fact about bulbs is that while the lifespan may be listed as 4000 hours, the brightness drops off significantly in the first 500-1000 hours. In other words, if you're a gamer and you rack up the hours, the bulb projector's brightness could be comparable to your PG6 inside of 6 months to a year. Of course, you'll want to turn off "eco" mode to compensate, which will then shorten the bulb's lifespan even more... Given that, don't expect anywhere near the 4,000 hours the literature says the bulb will last. I'd guess well under half before you'll want to replace the bulb is probably a safer bet. That may not be a big deal - might be two years for you - but, I thought I'd mention it.
The two almost identical, but according to the projectorspecs pages, they have different lamps and the W6 says it has variable iris... even though they're listed with identical contrast specs. One is probably wrong. I doubt it has a variable iris at that price point.
As for the throw on the new projector, using the calculator here:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_Home_Cinema_700-projection-calculator-pro.htm
Looks like your throw range for a 92" wide screen is 11'5" to 13'9". Same w/the W6. That minimum throw is probably longer than your CRT, isn't it?
I'd ask over at AVS in the digital forum for somebody to explain the differences between the two, and they'll also be able to tell you if there are better alternatives (720p DLP?) in your price range or close to it.
SC
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buschdogg
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 25
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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I realize the bulb will get dimmer, but I only plan on using it in eco mode at all times, so it shouldn't be too big a deal. The room is about 16' long, but there's a radiator in the rear of the room as well as my couch, not to mention the NEC is about 3 feet long itself, so the throw distance wouldn't be a problem.
What page said they use different lamps, btw? I was under the assumption both those and the ex70 (another nearly identical model) use the lamp found here: http://www.tapeandmedia.com/detail.asp?product_id=V13H010L41&source=Froogle&REFERER=Froogle
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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buschdogg wrote: | I realize the bulb will get dimmer, but I only plan on using it in eco mode at all times, so it shouldn't be too big a deal. |
Right, but what I'm saying is that at some point - possibly in the first year or so that you have the projector, you'll no longer be able to use it in the eco mode, and will have to use it in full power to be happy w/the brightness... at which point, you shorten the bulb lifespan even faster. Like I said, might not be a big deal to replace a bulb every year or two - I'm just sayin'...
buschdogg wrote: | The room is about 16' long, but there's a radiator in the rear of the room as well as my couch, not to mention the NEC is about 3 feet long itself, so the throw distance wouldn't be a problem. |
I'm confused... Is throw distance a problem, or not? The NEC and the Epson probably have very similar throw distance? Would you ceiling or shelf-mount the Epson, then?
These two pages show some differences:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_Home_Cinema_700.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_W6.htm
The 700 says "140W UHE E-TORL" and the W6 says "170W UHE". It's the same on the Epson site. They're slightly different.
According to the Proj Central pages, the W6 was announced in October and the 700 in November. They could be identical projectors and just marketed to different audiences (business/multimedia vs. home/gaming) and with slightly different bulbs in each. That would explain the 170w bulb in the "multimedia" projector and the 140w bulb in the "cinema" projector. In the office, you want a brighter image, and at home you want better blacks. The bulb would have that affect, but would not change contrast settings at all - hence the identical contrast specs. Of course, they both say 2000 ANSI lumens, so I don't know what Epson is doing.
Again... I'd highly recommend the "Under $3000 digital projector" forum at AVS.
SC
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buschdogg
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 25
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, I should have been clearer, but yes, if I switch, I will be mounting the Epson on the ceiling, so I'll have about 4-5 more feet of throw distance. I'm not 100 percent on this, I know I will miss the NEC, but if I keep it I will want to put new tubes in (Green, maybe red) and a point convergence board, as well as get a scaler of some sort, or an hdfury, all of which will cost quite a bit, if I can even find the parts in the first place.
edit: I am checking those forums, though. Thanks for the info.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:44 am Post subject: |
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Dont kid yourself on the brightness buddy, ive got 2 of each, 2 Epsons, a 9PG and a Sony 1001, i have indeed directly compared the Sony 1001 with the 1,800 lumen Epson, and it was not much brighter at all, the contrast ratio on the Sony more than made up for it. The Sony had some pretty badly burned tubes in it at that stage too, so i doubt it was putting out the lumens it was factory rated to put out.
The picture on the PG you have should very easily beat that Epson in almost every way. I wouldnt worry too much about the bulb life on the Epson, they are pretty reliable, but if you read the other thread in here i started call Compatibility issues, you may want to consider checking that out before you buy to make sure itll work fine for you.
As far as sometime in the first 12 months having to run on full power cause the brightness will be too low on low power, what a load of garbage, total and utter garbage. As i say ubove, i have 2 Epsons here, one has over 2 years service, the other has about 18 months, both run on low power at all times, and unless its broad daylight, youll hardly see the point in going to full power cause the difference it just that small, and the bulb brightness does not fade out that much. Now im certainly not backing the Epson here, but facts should be facts, and in my personal experience, this significant drop in brightness remains to be seen in this house at least. Further more, i had for 3 years a Mitsubishi 3LCD with an expected 2,000 hr life on the bulb using full power, when i sold it to a mate at work, it had done over 2,000 hrs on low power, it still worked fine, brightness was still fine set on low, it had dropped in brightness abit, but i wouldnt say it was significant. It failed at around 3,600 hrs acording to the hr meter, it didnt give a high and low output reading, just an overall on time. Towards the last 200 hrs or so, it apparently did go pretty dim, but it was at that stage 1,400 hrs past the bulb change interval.
ecrabb wrote: | Of course, they both say 2000 ANSI lumens, so I don't know what Epson is doing.
SC |
The lumen output of a bulb its self isnt just dictated by the wattage, if i use flurecent tubes as an example of this, a 36watt tri-phosphor tube comes in different flavours, 840, 850, 865 etc, the difference between 840 to 865 in terms of lumens is not a hell of alot, but the 865s are brighter in terms of output, wattage is the same, but colour temperature varies the lumen output. So at a guess, the 140watt bulb may have a whiter light than the 170watt, and the correction within the projector for the bulb kelvin may be what levels the total lumen output.
Just a theory on it all there, i work in club maintenance, at times i change alot of bulbs, every now and then you stop and read the specs on the pack
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buschdogg
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 25
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Link Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:51 am Post subject: |
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Just thought I'd update everyone on what I did.
I just picked up an Optoma HD70 on Craigslist with 136 hours on the current bulb for 500 bucks. I get to keep the crt and have my dlp, too!
I will say the pictures are quite comparable. Yes, the blacks are much better on the crt, but that Optoma does look pretty nice... especially until I get a point convergence board from Curt or elsewhere and can fine tune the corners on my NEC.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like the go BuschDogg, I dont know anyting about the HD70 but as long as youre happy with it you're laughin
How many positions can you adjust the convergence on your NEC without the point board? Between me and a friend, we have a 9PG each, and he also has a 9PG Xtra with rooted tubes (hasnt arrived yet)
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buschdogg
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 25
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Link Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Um, there are no "positions" without the point board as far as I know, or I'd have perfect convergence, lol. You get to move it from the center and only the center, then try and use geometry etc. to line it up. I have an extremely watchable picture on mine without the point board... most of the screen looks just as sharp as the Optoma, if not sharper, it's just that I want it absolutely perfect.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Oh ok, so there is no corner adjustments at all eh? That will certainly make it alot harder...
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buschdogg
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 25
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Link Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Nope, not without that precious point board! However, the better you do the physical setup of the projector, the easier it will be. Like I said, it still looks pretty darned good even without the board... though you may (if you're like me) feel like killing yourself by the end of the astig adjustments, lol.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Ill stick with the 9s then
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 3068 Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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Link Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:09 am Post subject: |
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CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | Oh ok, so there is no corner adjustments at all eh? That will certainly make it alot harder... |
Umm..ahh
Keystone?
Pincushion?
Key Balance?
Pin Balance?
You don't need a point board on an Xtra. Not unless you really max out the width, and eventually the raster will kink on the LH side.
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